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Bullying. Any ideas on how to stop it?


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#18 pamela

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 06:03 PM

hey Laurie, don't misunderstand, my terminology was in reference to moon's reactions and not the bully identity. My point to him was to stop the violence and not join in to it. I understand getting beat up and the need to defend one's self. I was attacked when i was 25 by a male. I was beaten profusely and had my head introduced to a Ford countless times. I managed to escape from the butcher knife he pulled on me.Of course i defended myself.My death was insight.There is a time and place when reciprocated violence is necessary.This cat was no ordinary bully, he was a psychopath. Chances are, he was likely bullied and abused as a child, and has carried on the legacy

#19 Moontanman

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 06:04 PM

[quote][quote name='pamela']hmmm sounds more like alpha male and ego dude, did i misunderstand?[/quote]

Alpha male.....guilty



[quote]so a couple good brawls is an end to a means?[/quote]

yup, when nothing else works there is no doubt

[quote]saviour syndrome or just looking cool?[/quote]

Neither, I take of the people I love, always. These guys and one girl were my friends, we hung together because of our mutual interest in science, math, and music. They could only cry when bullied, I was raised differently. Backing down was just not part of me, of course i wasn't above running if there were too many ( I did have a brain ) but eventually the odds would get better and I would do my best to take them down.

[quote]. Yup, pride from the Apha male..[/quote]

No doubt, but an alpha male who knows who his friends are. God had better help anyone who would mess with my kids now, but i am still loyal to those who are my friends too.

[quote] i am curious did you praise his deed or show him a better way with nonviolence in response to his action?[/quote]

The talk came before the action, he was afraid to walk to his friends house three blocks away, I told him that he had to decide if he would sneak around in fear or take control of his life. I told him a simple punch to the nose would keep the bully from bothering him, it worked, the bully went on to more passive victims and my son could walk the neighbor hood with out fear. He never took to bullying anyone himself even though a 6' kid like him could have. He still seems to attract those who need someone to hide behind. He freely takes care of those who need a safe friend to depend on. he is a fine man and I'm very proud of him.

[quote]might be a good idea to let go of the emotion and speak clearly and concisely- you can convey your thoughts without it getting out of control[/quote]

I am never out of control, i always keep the conversation as far above the gutter as possible but when forced to do so I will drop down and fight.

[quote]silly! no one thinks you are a bad human nor would i want you to be abused. I do however know that you are capable of calm intelligent conversations, your posts in this forum have reflected that:)[/quote]

:hihi:
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#20 pamela

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 09:06 PM

okay, the thread title asks the question on how to stop the bullying.It might be a good idea to look at how we can prevent it. In rereading over the posts, we have painted the bully as merely an evil ogre.Whats behind the ogre? What fear drives this child and subsequent adult to resort to control tactics and demeaning words and violence? it is so easy to label and avoid looking at what suffering may lie underneath. For the child, what pain has been inflicted upon him that he has to lash out at others as away of expressing a form of control, when he is powerless at home. What drives this child to the point of exhibiting the very behaviour that he despises? As the child grows into the teenage years, and hormonal changes occur, how has the expression changed? Violence can easily be expressed under these conditions. The teen enters adulthood and now how does that play out in the work place, in a marriage?
Now the grown bully has a child, what now, will history repeat itself?
Of course intervention can occur at any one of these stages, what types of intervention do you think may change the outcome and essentially stop the bullying?

#21 LaurieAG

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 11:03 PM

Hi Pamela, all,

Whats behind the ogre?


The usual suspect is unequal application of the rules, bullies do what they do because they know they will not be punished, especially if they bully any witnesses. If the responsible authorities themselves are also bullies then you have a real problem.

The main thing with bullies in government administration is that they will punish any 'whistleblowers' who leak embarassing documents to the press. They do not want their conscious incompetence to becomes public knowledge so they try to put a spin on everything to prortray themselves in a positive light (as the victims) and their accusers as the real problem, to be dealt with accordingly.

When Freedom of Information laws become Freedom from Information laws the bully bells should be ringing loudly.

BTW, my local area (50 km radius) has probably had more gratuitous violence and vandalism clips (posted by schoolchildren) removed from utube than any other comparable area on this planet. While individuals have recently been charged with assisting crimes (bashings etc) by filming them (and then posting the clips) does banning camera phones from schools fix the bullying problem or does it merely hide the problem?

Covering up problems rather than fixing them is what's behind the ogre.

#22 paigetheoracle

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:47 AM

Hi everybody! I'm late to the game but I hope my comments prove interesting. Firstly I don't think it is the sport per se that is the problem but that such activities don't develop the little grey cells between the ears (Art and science do because they require detailed concentration, whether it's music or something else). Sport and any crude, laboring activity build up muscles not brain cells.

Of course bullies use threats and intimidation because violence is dangerous to all parties, potentially, so if you can get what you want without it, why not? On top of this violence is weakness and if you can provoke someone else to hit you, they not you look bad in others eyes (Even criminals want to justify their actions, to appear the good guy).

Talking of whistleblowers - the nurse who exposed the lack of care for patients in a hospital ward for geriatrics, in a Panorama TV show, was sacked by her profession but the bastards who mistreated the old people were not, proving the point raised is true about cover ups through embarrassment by the authorities.

Lastly on this subject and talking of animals. We have a new dog that keeps attacking our old dog. It's a fear reaction but we know that if we stick to it that this will change over time as did our appreciation of the second dog we got last year, that preceded the Collie. I was all for giving it to the nearest dogs home, if I didn't strangle the little so-and-so first! Now he's obedient and calmer as the Collie is becoming too. There are times when we want to throw her out but we know that in her present condition (damaged goods) she wouldn't get re-homed easily if at all. Like a lot of these twisted bullies, you need to stop their bad behaviour there and then (if for nothing else in our case but to keep the vet bills down for stitching). We need to understand the behaviour not condone it (see reasons, not accept excuses - with the dog it goes ballistic when it feels confined because that was its early life - in a 10-15 foot outside run for at least 4-5 years, with no let out for exploring the rest of the world). The frightened, frighten - stress can turn anyone psychotic as this is the basis of brainwashing.

#23 arkain101

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 09:59 AM

One thing that enters my mind in response to the title alone is the following;

Bullying basically comes down to ego related things. In the person doing the bullying there is a sense of pride, but of course it is a false sense of pride. But I am not going to attempt to try and explain the causes at this point.

What I notice in life is that any social confrontations and conflicts that occur, can be broken down to a few very basic rules. Confidence and Fear. Which really means, False confidence, and the fear connected with that.

I've consistently witnessed throughout my life that any group of people both subjected to events where their false confidence is realized and fear and caution takes their place, they become dependent on eachother. All the bully games subside, and the goal ahead of them becomes the top priority. This unavoidable teamwork effort forms understanding and bonds. It teaches people that in where they thought they saw weakness there was strength, and where they thought they saw strength the learned its weakness.

For example.

Racial issues settled between individuals in boot camp and warfare.

A bully subjected to a new and unfamiliar environment like a summer job surrounded by accomplished able people. His power is removed, his weakness exposes and he seeks for support in anyone.

I think solving bullying in schools would be directly related to these basics. If we could change the environment where false confidence was unable to succeed students would be able to learn new methods to gain sense of confidence and control.

Some of the specific issues could relate to school hours being too long. It becomes negatively central to their lives. In the sense they have to find something to do with their time, recess, lunch hours. The focus of what school is actually for fails severely! A lot of kids don't even know what they are doing there, so they invent their own main focus. Some kids turn school into their own little ego empire, where they can be powerful and in control.

Not enough real world challenges put in place where each persons true strengths can be exposed and utilized, and in that process itself they learn naturally what false strength and confidence really is.

#24 arkain101

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:00 AM

Sport and any crude, laboring activity build up muscles not brain cells.


I suppose it depends on what specifically you mean by crude, but I could not disagree with this more in relation to labor.

I know we can learn more from certain forms of hands on experience than any book will ever teach a person(I am not responding to you directly paige). When we push ourselves through rough conditions, doing the down and dirt parts of life we get a real and lasting feel for some of the true difficulties of life.

As a person goes through the process of removing the whining and complaints of their body and mind through laboring work not just a 'work out' but, -wet, dirty, dusty, slimy, early morning, late evening- kind of work, they can quickly learn to see what does and does not help them succeed on a daily basis.

Take farm work for example. As long as the person is part of a honest team of people going out and doing a hard days work in various conditions, it can be very important for developing an attitude of humility, respect, and honor for the people around you. Example: Take a king or queen of the world attitude (bullying) and go shovel some cow crap with crap flies around you... lol ya know? Even kings and queens can shovel poop. All of our false ideals of ourselves will try every trick they can to avoid having to do some of these kinds of things at first so we can continue holding onto them and remain in this idealistic world we've created of ourselves, but those ideals won't last in that kind of environment. New ideals emerge, from understanding produced through hands on experience and accomplishment, giving one a lasting sense of confidence, as opposed to lack of understanding and no hands on experience with very little under your belt expect the ideals we've created to give you some sense of confidence.

Of course this is only one example. The same can be said for hitting the books. It doesnt really matter what the activity is, as long as we are challenging ourselves and pushing our limits and comfort zones we can grow and develop. We can establish independence and social respect when we work together towards some common goal.

My experiences and knowledge of school were very far from accomplishing those very important life skills, and because of that, so much opportunity is lost.

#25 arkain101

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:17 AM

I think we complicate the some of the problems of society a lot more than we need to.

If I had to offer a solution in the least amount of words I would say:

(Metaphorically)
Society needs to go out and get dirty and shovel a little more manure together. We just don't shovel Sh*t like we used to.

I think this is one of George W. Bushes wisest statements (Although I don't know the context or exact words, but I believe it was somthing like this):

In response to the his activities after leaving his position as President of the United States: "I've been picking up a little dog manure here and there."

We could all learn from Mr. Bush on that.


It can be said that today our leaders must also become actors, not because this is their character, but it is because of the ideals society has of what is powerful, respectful and true. If a politician wants to be seen as powerful, respectful and true, he must become weaker and false. For no man is a god, but only a man who must do the duties of life.

#26 maddog

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 12:16 PM

What to be done breaks down into two groups: what to do on an individual basis, and
what to do as a group or within the infrastructure of the school or community.

As an individual what I did as a potential victim was to use humor, logic followed by a quick foot thereafter. A bully would come to taunt me or something. I would use my gift
of wit and banter back. Best worked with a crowd around. Bullies just HATE being laughed
at. Sometimes this alone was enough. If not, I would pose some hard question that would
make the bully think. By the time he was ready to respond, I was gone, not to be beaten
upon. This worked great in grade school. I never got "beaten to a pulp ...". However,
in High School was increased sophistication. By then even bullies were brighter. All I ever
saw in bullying in HS was bullying of a psychological nature, not physical. In my time/place
in High School it was the groups of "Jocks" and "Freaks" (which was somewhat synonymous with "egghead", etc. I was continually taunted by the Athletic crowd for
having long hair. One day, I lost it and as I walked by my taunter I left hooked him as I
walked by (kept walking). This got me in trouble as this was during class break in the
hall with many witnesses. So like Moontanman, I was then an Alpha Male who would
stand for no more. I took my licks from the principal. Yet within my heart, I did feel a
sense of conviction. Could I have done it more nonviolent. Likely. The difference here
(as my limited thinking in the matter) was that in any nonviolent method, the taunting
would continue, whereas my method the taunter did stop.

Today as an adult, I prefer seeking a peaceful path if possible. At the same time from
Martial Arts training, I am still willing to fight if forced.

Secondly, what can be done as a group ? Get counselors involved in the process, investigate
what is going on with the Bully's family. If gang(s) are involved then involve the community as well.

I am not a parent, so I can only relate on a personal level (what happened to me as a
child) or in a conceptual level (outside of personal experience).

Hope this has added something to this thread. :hihi: :rotfl: ;)

maddog

#27 LaurieAG

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 04:47 PM

One thing that has had success in my state is a group of entertainers who visit primary schools and present bullying in a light that shows the bullies what they are actually doing.

Unfortunately 'success' is relative because 25% of my states grade 4-9 students claim to be bullied at school.

#28 HydrogenBond

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 07:28 PM

I was bullied once, when I was in the first grade, by an older boy, who was in the second grade. I was lucky, because a third grader stuck up for me. As it turned out, the boy who helped me was the toughest kid in the school. His gesture of kindness went a long way, in gossip mill of the playground, giving me bully immunity, the rest of my time in that school.

What I learned that day, was if you aren't the fighting type, which I wasn't, be friendly and say hello to the tough kids. When the bullies see you say hello to a tough kid, they are not sure of your association and they leave you alone.

I have a nephew, who is a really bright young man, but he is also rough and tumble and also a jock. Starting in about the second grade, he became a protector for some of his smaller but equally smart friends.

If I was a principle in a school, I would recruit some of the older and girls boys, who have a reputation for being alpha. I would have them keep an eye on the bullies and turn my head when they apply some muscle; just as long as it is righteous. This would give all the potential victims of bullies, their own protector.

#29 enorbet2

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:39 AM

One minor point -
I think it is mistaken to equate bullies with alpha males. Not one single bully from my High School didn't end up a loser, either in jail or just knuckled under in adult society. The real alpha males were the ones that were sociable and somewhat bright, with some organizational skills and seemingly focused on others, instilling confidence in followers. I don;t think it is possible to stop bullying altogether but it is possible to considerably diminish it by taking away the motivation. That however is a complex order as long as most of us slow down to view a roadside accident - Sax and Violins play a mean tune.

#30 pamela

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 11:24 AM

One minor point -
I think it is mistaken to equate bullies with alpha males. Not one single bully from my High School didn't end up a loser, either in jail or just knuckled under in adult society. The real alpha males were the ones that were sociable and somewhat bright, with some organizational skills and seemingly focused on others, instilling confidence in followers.

you may have misunderstood, the alpha male attachments were for both Maddog and Moontanman and not attached to the bully profile. And as we can see, both are superior specimens of intelligence, and sociability;)

#31 Moontanman

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:13 PM

:hihi:

#32 Michaelangelica

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 11:20 PM

Sorry for this little top post but I have yet to learn how to handle lists with the aplomb that you do Michaelangelica so please bear with me. In the interest of time I will fumble around as best I can, even if it is crude.


Your doing really well. It took me a year to find some things here and I still have not explored all of hypography's 'nooks and crannies'!

I don't think I really disagree with you much. Just that we need to test your assumptions, perhaps. Thanks for the clarification of my simplification. :hihi:

On cats, i raised them mainly for my kids. I believe kids need to know how to treat animals. i always had animals as a kid (dogs, cats, rabbits, birds anything legal). My wife was not allowed pets.
The kids basically helped deliver most kittens (so it was a good biology lesson too!) and had them dressed in "baby clothes" before they could open their eyes! I think this very early handling helped give the kittens the wonderful temperaments they all had.
One mother cat decided enough was enough, and had her kittens in a cave in a big pile of rocks on our property (a small farm). These kittens were really wild. It took us some time to catch and tame them; and they never did have the trusting gentle nature that the handled "gentled"? cats/kittens did.
i don't know what this proves re humans or bullies, but is interesting nevertheless.

Originally Posted by enorbet
One minor point -
I think it is mistaken to equate bullies with alpha males.

Yes I agree. Women and men all jostle for social position and group status but that does not always involve bulling.
In Transactional Analysis they say that some people who feel insecure or inadequate ("I'M not OK") bully because this gives them rewards or 'strokes' their ego. It proves "I'm OK, Your Not OK. "I am at least better than this nerd!" ( See Dorothy Jongeward's Book "I'm OK Your OK"). Perhaps this is the reason the school programme i mentioned,--where kids were taught that bullies were inadequate and to be puttied-- worked so well.

#33 Michaelangelica

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 07:02 AM

I didn't look at this TV program tonight, but should have. Some very talented counsellors working with an ordinary class of primary School kids. The bits I did see were great and touched on this topic. Anyone involved in eduction should watch it. (You may have to download the free Iview programme first?)
ABC iView | Internet TV Service

Kids' Business
Posted Image
Over a year at a central Victorian Primary School we get to know a group of typical but extraordinary 12 year olds. This is a film about kids and violence. It is also a film about children learning how to talk about their lives.

Once a week this school holds a special class where these grade 5 and 6 kids learn how to talk about their lives. Most importantly they learn how to talk to their parents about what matters to them.

For one hour, facilitator Bernadette Wright encourages them to talk candidly about their lives. They talk about relationships with their families, about bullying and about violence both at school and controversially, at home.

Live Online Forum - Thursday 11th June 10:20pm-11:30pm AEST

Documentaries - Kids' Business

#34 Michaelangelica

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 09:22 PM

Just found this,
A growing problem

Cyber-bullying
Classroom
February 2005; Pages 18–19
Anne Bamford

With the increase in Internet usage and the proliferation of mobile phones, especially amongst the young, there has been a growing incidence of cyber-bullying, the use of the technology as a means to intimidate and harm others. Bamford identifies the different kinds of cyber-bullying, including anonymity, the use of pseudonyms, masquerading as someone else, flaming, outing and exclusion, and explains the kinds of actions teachers, and, more generally, adults can take to reduce its occurrence. Those actions include educating young people in critical media literacies, instilling in them a ‘sense of right and wrong’, and working with them in the ‘virtual environment’ to promote positive uses of the technologies. Bamford also calls for professional development for teachers in cyber-safety.

and this amazing list at
Teacher Resources

Bullying Sites:
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Kansas Bullying Prevention Program – suggested links to bullying sites
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Bullies - Teachers.Net - TEACHERS.NET GAZETTE - Teachers.Net Gazette provides news from Teachers.Net direct to teachers around the world. Teachers.Net features 24 hour discussions with teachers around the globe. Early childhood chatboard primary elementary cha - Bully Advice For Kids
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Bullying - www.bullying.org Where you are NOT alone! Created by Bill Belsey - "is a non-profit, multiple award-winning project created to help others. People can contribute their personal stories, poems, music, drawings, voices (audio files), and even animations and films."
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Anti-Bullying Network - Anti-Bullying Network - from the The University of Edinburgh. “The material which we produce may be copied or downloaded for non-commercial use in schools or other establishments providing the Anti-Bullying Network is credited.”
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Anti-Bullying Unit - http://www.onthenet....ti-bullying.htm - “Wendy Townsend teaches in Miami State High School in Queensland, Australia. This is her Internet-based Grade 7 classroom unit on anti-bullying, for which she has thoughtfully appended the worksheets she hands out.”
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Bullying Online - Bullying UK - The UK's Leading Anti-bullying Charity 1999-2009 “Help and advice for Victims of bullying, their Parents and school”
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Bullying at School - http://www.scre.ac.uk/bully/ - “SCRE's involvement in issues of bullying stem from research conducted in the 1990s into bullying in schools and the effectiveness of various approaches to its prevention. Details of this research are available in the two Spotlight briefing papers listed below, which are available on the SCRE website.”
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Bullying in Schools and What to Do About It - New Page 1 - “These pages will inform you of what educationalists and researchers have discovered in the last few years about bullying and harassment and the practical suggestions that are now being made to overcome this age-old and troublesome problem.”
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Bullying – No Way! - Bullying. No way! From Australia
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Stop Bullying Now - Stop Bullying Now - “The links on this site will lead you through an exploration of interventions that work to reduce bullying in schools.”
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Stop Bullying Now
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Bullying - http://www.sortit.org.uk/bullying.htm - “Are you being bullied?
Sometimes school work is the least of your problems. There may be something else worrying you. Some children are bullied at school or elsewhere and it can be very hard for them to know who to talk to. They may feel it just isn't cool to 'grass' on the bully. But something has to be done. If this is happening to you, read this page carefully. You can get help.”
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Bullying – what is it? Page moved to ... - “Types of bullying, bullying tactics, how targets are selected, the difference between bullying and harassment. An answer to the question "Why me?"
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BBC Site on Bullying - http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/bullying/ - “Bullying is a problem that faces thousands of people every day, but it can be prevented. The links and resources on this page explain how you can stop bullying.
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Colorado’s Anti-Bullying Project - Online Pills Store Onlinepillspro.com
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Stop Bullying Now - Education World ® Lesson Planning: Stop Bullying Now! - “lessons designed to teach students to respect diversity and resolve ideological differences peacefully. Included: ten activities for teaching kids about empathy, anger management, and effective conflict resolution.”
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Bullying Resources - Awesome Library - Counselor - Conflict Prevention and Mediation - Bullying - links to bullying resources
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Maine Project Against Bullying Internet Resources – Resourses - Maine Project Against Bullying - “offers information about practices that promote school safety”
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Bullying Sites Suggested by EduHound Newsletter:
bullet NEA: National Bullying Awareness Campaign (NBAC) NEA - 404: Page not found
bullet Maine Project Against Bullying - Maine Project Against Bullying
Stop Bullying Now! - Stop Bullying Now
bullet Dealing with Bullies - Kidscape - Page Moved
bullet Education World Special Theme: Bullying Education World®: Special Theme: Bullying
bullet No Bullies - Colorado's Anti-Bullying Project - http://www.no- bully.com - Provides information and resources for teachers, parents, and students regarding bullying and bullying prevention.