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Bullying. Any ideas on how to stop it?


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#1 Michaelangelica

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 02:28 AM

Bullying victims develop psychosis symptoms: study



Posted Tue May 5, 2009 10:00am AEST

British researchers say people who are bullied as children have twice the risk of having delusions, hallucinations or other psychotic symptoms as pre-teens as those who have not been bullied.

They said bullying - especially when it is severe or chronic - can have serious consequences for some children, and may even act as a trigger for people who are genetically predisposed to schizophrenia.

"Chronic or severe peer victimisation has non-trivial, adverse, long-term consequences," Andrea Schreier of the University of Warwick in Coventry, England, and colleagues wrote in the Archives of General Psychiatry.

Several studies have shown that traumatic events in childhood such as physical or sexual abuse are linked with the development of psychosis in adulthood.

People who display psychotic symptoms in childhood are also more prone to develop schizophrenia as adults.

Dr Schreier and colleagues wanted to see if bullying might bring about some of these symptoms in adolescents.

They studied 6,437 12-year-olds who underwent yearly physical and psychological assessments from age 7 and whose parents regularly filled out surveys.

At each visit, trained interviewers rated the children on whether they had experienced psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations, delusions or thought disorders during the prior six months.

Children, parents and teachers reported on whether the child had been bullied - as defined by negative actions by one or more other students with the intention to hurt.

A total of 46.2 per cent of participants were considered victims of bullying when they were 8 or 10.

They found that the appearance of psychotic symptoms was twice as high among the victims of bullying, regardless of whether they had any psychiatric illness, family trouble or their level of intelligence.

This link was stronger when the bullying was chronic or severe.

It is not yet clear how bullying raises the risks for psychotic behaviours in adolescents, but the researchers say it may be that bullying brings out such behaviours in people who are already genetically predisposed to schizophrenia.

Alternatively, it may be that repeated bullying alters a person's ability to respond to stress.

That needs more study, but intervention programs aimed at reducing bullying may help prevent some psychiatric problems later on, they said.

- Reuters
Bullying victims develop psychosis symptoms: study - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

One headmaster I know of was presented with a university study of how prevalent and common bulling behaviour was at his school.
His response was to rant and rave in front of the assembled high school (12-18 YOs) and declare/shout- "If I find out who is doing this bullying, (splutter)I will bring them up here and publicly whip them!"

Don't do as I do, just as I say.

Another school I saw approached the problem by teaching all kids that Bullies were sad, inadequate people who needed to 'bully' to make them feel good. They were therefore objects to be pitied.
This approach seemed to work for a time.

#2 enorbet2

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 03:10 AM

Hello Michaelangelica

May I offer the suggestion that it be handled similarly to the last step you mentioned, one of education (what schools are supposed to do best) but instead of stooping to humiliation which is likely how they got to be bullies in the first place eg: bullied at home. Instead it could be noted that bullies do not ordinarily take on equals, let alone bigger, badder (sic) individuals but rather those perceived as the weakest not only physically but socially. Once average kids begin to notice what a cheap shot it is, what a minor even non-achievment it is, it begins to take away the bully's motivation ie. recognition, fear, and respect.

Once an individual shows that this is not sufficient deterrent it should be taught that it is all student's duty to report bullies, anonymously at first, to the office so they can be given help since they likely need either therapy, social services (pointing out again the parental connection) or both. This would have the added effect of indirectly threatening a bullying parent and a bullied child is unlikely to risk getting their bullying parent in trouble while also increasing the likelihood of people risking the report since they can see it is helpful rather than punitive (breaks the raison d'etre for the No Rat rule).

Oh yeah and reducing if not eliminating special privileges for groups favored because of teacher/administrator bias eg Athletes, one of the groups with inherently high percentages of bullies.

I hope this thread gets lots more attention as it is a serious, but treatable, issue.
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#3 LaurieAG

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 04:44 AM

Hi all,

We must understand that bullying goes beyond school into the workplace and even into politics (the party whips) before we can contemplate a solution.

#4 enorbet2

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 11:04 AM

Hi all,

We must understand that bullying goes beyond school into the workplace and even into politics (the party whips) before we can contemplate a solution.


Good point, Laurie. Such behaviour often does continue on into adulthood and certainly women are likely disproportionately victimized. It seems to me, however, that all but the pathological will abandon behaviour that ends badly. The "mule and the plank" rule may apply but once people determine that bullying rarely works the way they'd like, and learn it sooner rather than later, it would seem such would be diminished most. It is probably unlikely that it can be completely eliminated as long as domination is part of people's ancient and deep programming. That is not to say that it can't be substantially diminished considering other deep urges have been largely sublimated by civilization.

#5 Moontanman

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 02:42 PM

When I was in school doing my best to kick the bullies *** worked well for me. I didn't always win but the bully seldom wanted to risk it more than a few times. I also defended other kids from bullies, mostly my nerdy buddies but I grew up hard. Knuckling under to a bully was just out of the question. For the most part the bullies learned to leave the "rocket club" alone :turtle: Sadly when my boys went to school they found out the school policies against fighting often allowed bullies to operate freely since no one could risk fighting because of the schools kicking out both parties no matter who started it. Bullies seem to really flourish under these conditions, bullies almost never fight, they mostly operate on psychological level of intimidation and cruelty. My youngest son managed to bloody a bullies nose once in the neighborhood and learned that bullies fear nothing worse than a victim who stands up to them.

#6 pamela

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 04:07 PM

violence begets violence.....
It would appear Moontanman, that you became that which you were against. Beating up the bullies, made you the larger bully.
When i was 13 a group of 20 some girls at the other school in my town decided they were gonna take Pam out the picture.Now i was a rather verbal teenager and a few stray comments about the leader of the pack made it back to her ears. The comments, unfortunately were true, but some things are better left unsaid when the hormones are out of control and boys are involved;)
Now their school let out about 20 minutes before mine did, and they would lay in wait for me about halfway between the school and my home.For days, they would encircle me and hurl threats.My own pack of 4 chicks stopped walking with me although we travelled the same route. When questioned, they wanted to keep their pretty faces and teeth.So alone, for days, dreading and i mean absolutely dreading that walk home, there they would be.Finally the day of imminent face removal was here. They screamed and yelled and baited me to throw the first punch.I stood there, quietly. On it went, until finally, i made it quite clear that i would not hit any of them and if they must, beat the you know what out of me, but i would not fight back. they were puzzled,and confused. They stared, open mouthed, got pissed off and walked away. That ended that day, and you know, i ended up becoming best friends with that chick and she bullied no more;)

#7 Michaelangelica

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 10:11 PM

Hello Michaelangelica

Once average kids begin to notice what a cheap shot it is, what a minor even non-achievment it is, it begins to take away the bully's motivation ie. recognition, fear, and respect.

Once an individual shows that this is not sufficient deterrent it should be taught that it is all student's duty to report bullies, anonymously at first, to the office so they can be given help since they likely need either therapy, social services (pointing out again the parental connection) or both. This would have the added effect of indirectly threatening a bullying parent and a bullied child is unlikely to risk getting their bullying parent in trouble while also increasing the likelihood of people risking the report since they can see it is helpful rather than punitive (breaks the raison d'etre for the No Rat rule).

Oh yeah and reducing if not eliminating special privileges for groups favored because of teacher/administrator bias eg Athletes, one of the groups with inherently high percentages of bullies.

I hope this thread gets lots more attention as it is a serious, but treatable, issue.

Interesting ideas You would need to set up systems or structures that enabled kids to report bullies without fear of repercussions

I was very surprised to hear-recently- from my 28 YO daughter that she was bullied at school. Something she never shared with me; yet we had a very close and open relationship. But i guess there are some things you don't tell parents or or even teachers. I was surprised by how much it still hurt her, and with what bitterness she remembers it. This is even stranger because when she was niggled to breaking point by an anything bully she decked her and got into much trouble about it. She was frightened to tell us about this but had to or the school would have. She was amazed to think that we (mum and dad)thought her reaction was not unreasonable given the escalating provocation and she got support and understanding from us rather than the "big-trouble" she expected.



I wonder if there is some sort of "Victim" psychology going on here?
It may feel embarrassing or shameful to report that you have been bullied?
Perhaps the environment or social awareness of the problem is lacking?
For example the recent revelations of sexual abuse by Irish ( and most other counties) clergy. Strange that, that report named many victims I think but not the perpetrators.

Interesting that you mention sport. I, and my kids, have never had much sporting endurance. One has severe and dangerous exercise-induced asthma. So they did suffer bulling -once from a sports teacher, who should have known better or have been better trained.- on this. Both are very competent musicians. I find the adoration of sporting figures throughout my society sickening while brilliant musicians, medicos and scientists and others go unnoticed or supported by community resources by the "Great Unwashed Public'.
Top Football players here can do no wrong; although a recent series of sex and drug scandals have dented this support, especially among women. However most just dismiss such barbaric behaviour as group sex (or rape?) as "Boys will be Boys"
Too, girls sport is mostly ignored unless they win an Olympic gold medal. 'Girls' cricket is great to watch and sometimes the women pull out moves that the guys would never think of. (Like hitting the ball with the back of the bat!-which made the Indian commentator speechless! :) )


Moontanman
You too seem to have an over-developed sense of Natural Justice like me. I hope you are a member of Amnesty. (See my parental reaction to my daughter's being bullied and 'decking' her bullier (sic) above) I am thinking of having mine (O.D.S.O.J.) surgically removed as it gets up the noses of many :turtle: Some here (Hypography) think I am a Yank Hater because I disagree with Yank policies like Guantanamo Bay (and no, you can't send any of them here. You made them crazy as 'cut-snakes' and vengeful -you fix them-Obama asked again this week).
Because I was always tall as a kid (6 foot at 12YO) I was never physically bullied and often 'rescued' smaller kids from bullies (Thinks-Is this why I spent much of my life in "helping" professions?-- still rescuing?)
pamela

That ended that day, and you know, i ended up becoming best friends with that chick and she bullied no more

Interesting that this often seems to happen after a"punch up" among men too. Especially when there is no clear "looser" (or victim?).

violence begets violence.....

Yes, agreed, sadly. The first thing I think of here is Israel, who have been taught by experts.

It is not what teachers teach, but HOW they teach it ,that is important.
One of the reasons there is so much flack about the behaviour of top sporting people as many say they are "role models" for young people. Have you ever seen the non-technological aggression, by short necked, bull-like-men, and all out ritual war that is a Rugby Union or League Game? Perhaps men have just outlived their biological use by date (Mozart's Maulers is a great book on this- very funny)

The Mozart Maulers
The Mozart Maulers is a comic memoir based on Dorian's experiences as a student at the Conservatorium of Music ... Click here to buy The Mozart Maulers book ...
www.dorianmode.com/maulers.htm

l

Web Archive Copy: Sports Factor: The Mozart Maulers
Now to a rarely explored lighter side to mental health: the book Mozart Maulers landed on my desk the other day. Described as a fictional autobiography, ...
fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2004/sportsf/s1229759.asp -

Dorian Mode: [reading] The Ref turned to me. ‘Heads or tails?’
‘Oh, I’m easy’.
‘No, no, you have to choose’.
‘Oh, um, heads’, I said, shrugging.
The coin fell into the sunlit fingers of grass. We leaned over to find it as if it were a vital fragment of Mesopotamian pottery.
‘Heads it is’, the Ref said, stooping. ‘Which way do you want to run?’
‘The quickest way home’, I said, but it came out as, ‘Oh, I don’t know, you decide.’
‘No, no, you have to choose’, he said, ‘you’re the captain’.
‘Which way would you run?’ Figured he’d know.
‘Er, no-one’s ever asked me before. Well look, the wind’s blowing from the south, so I’d run from left to right for this half, or perhaps you should have the breeze in the second half. But if the wind changes you’ve lost all advantage. No, no, run with the breeze while you have it, you never know, it could change in the second half.’
‘Are you expecting late wind?’
The Uni captain stood grinding his teeth.
‘I’d run from left to right’, the kindly official said.
‘Sounds cool’, I said. ‘Cheers’.
‘Does the Conservatorium want to kick off?’
I turned to the Sydney Uni captain who by then had cracked a molar. ‘What would you do if you were me?’
He snatched the ball. ‘We’ll kick off, for Christ’s sake’.

http://fulltext.ausp...sf/s1229759.asp

#8 freeztar

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 10:18 PM

Nice post Pam. I completely agree.

I've often found myself in similar circumstances. My strategy is to confront and then walk away. I've never had to use my fist and I've never been in a fight.

It's really about insecurity when it comes down to it.

#9 LaurieAG

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 10:31 PM

Hi Moontanman, Pamela, all,

Somehow, 'if you can't beat them join them' just perpetuates the problem.

But you can beat them fairly and squarely.

I used to work with 2 people who would have two sick days in a row before their days off on a regular basis leaving the rest of the team short handed for 4 days.

I complained to my team leader and they escalated it from every two months to every month.

I talked to my manager and they escalated it from every month to every fortnight.

I had a meeting with the GM and they escalated it to every week.

I had a second meeting with the GM and I could flip a coin and have a 50 50 chance of doing the work of two shifts in one. But I would lot let the bullies faze me and it stopped all of a sudden (I suspect they were threatened with the sack).

This lasted for 6 weeks because the only escalation they could do was not to turn up for work at all. This would have suited me fine.

I gained a lot of respect from the true professionals at my work because they know that bullying leads to a mediocrity that is a lose lose situation for everybody.

#10 LaurieAG

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 10:47 PM

Hi Freeztar,

I've never had to use my fist and I've never been in a fight.


I've only been in one fight in my adult life when I was king hit from behind in a dark street. Because my assailant yelled when he attacked I just reacted as I turned and decked him with one punch. We were good mates after the two weeks he had to wear sunglasses to hide his horrendous black eye.

#11 enorbet2

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 05:10 AM

I find it fascinating how this thread has changed and become more serious once it advanced out of the realm of school, which most of us here have left behind never to formally return, and into everyday adult life. It still seems to me that the best we can do starts early but some of bullying is just so deeply encoded, and the simple but usually sad truth is that violence of any kind simply works. There is a fundamental efficiency of it in all Nature, and in Nature nothing is all good or all bad, there are just consequences for programming and choices.

Many years ago my cat had a litter of kittens and shortly after they were weaned one day I filled a saucer of milk and some soft canned cat food and one of the kittens leaped onto the saucer literally spread-eagle covering as much of the saucer as possible, growling incredibly fiercely I though for such a wee babe and frankly although it disgusted me that this adorable little kitten was also so incredibly self-absorbed to not only hog it's food but prevent it's brothers and sisters from eating as well, my mind also was sent off in 50 directions considering "survival of the fittest", whether in the wild such behaviour might actually result in the death of some siblings and the effect of that on the brood fending off predators and successfully hunting with the pack diminished in numbers, but most of all it reminded me that this was not learned behaviour. It to at least some extent is built in, almost certainly in us as well.

I am utterly ashamed and similarly disgusted to discover that in my own county's highest offices there were (are?) men and women elected to office that worked very hard to sidestep our Constitution (in effect bullying all citizens) just so they could justify torture even while knowing that it was rarely even moderately effective. I suppose most of the motivation for this was simple revenge, but that is no excuse in adults, especially adults in powerful office.

It is said that Hitler felt free to pursue what would become the Holocaust because of the success of the Turkish in murdering nearly one million Armenians . He apparently commented when asked how he thought he could possibly get away with it, "Who remembers the Armenians?". It is remarkable that to this day numerous modern governments refuse to acknowledge this "seed of evil" even happened at all, let alone seek any kind of justice.

I'm not trying to turn this thread into a political or even moral one. I'm just trying to explore how deeply and how current such bullying is at all levels of organizations right down to the individual.

One thing on a personal level: I have never picked a fight but I have been in more than a couple. Perhaps because I was and am "bookish" bullies disregarded my athletic build and thought I was easy prey. I was not. Fortunately my Dad had taught me defensive fighting and one of his employees, an ex-boxer, taught me how to flip the odds. I'm of average height and weight, always have been, but I have strong legs and considerable upper body strength from very broad shoulders. I never once lost a one-on-one despite not having the aggressive upper hand. However because I didn't enjoy fighting and would still have rather avoided it, I soon learned how much was attitude.

Having once witnessed a bully confronting a boy who was clearly scared despite being the bigger of the two, who had his right arm around a stack of books and his left hand in his pocket, get sucker punched where it was impossible for him to defend himself and most of the crowd laughed at the victim and respected this lopsided, no mercy bully, I had learned an important lesson. The bully was offended that he wasn't taken seriously as a threat, that his confrontational words would never escalate into violence, that the victim was safe because, after all one would get called to the principal's office.

Just as in the wild animal world physical contests within a species are primarily bluff and bravado, where death is rare, I learned that when confronted with a bully it was safer to assume that he was willing to go to blows but did have some threshold of consequence that he was not prepared to accept as well as the fact that he could save face if he could say the victim was crazy. So when confronted beyond just a shoulder bump, when threats were voiced to me, I simply threw down my books as carelessly as possible, raised my fists, and said "No problem. I'm ready to go to the office, to jail, to the hospital, or even to the cemetery. You?" I never fought again.

I really don't like that I felt pressed into behaving that way but it worked and seemed better than any alternative I could then imagine... a lesser of evils.

I much prefer and am heartily Impressed and influenced by Mahatma Gandhi and his non-violent successes both individually and in thwarting the entire British Empire and that gives me great hope. At the same time I realize that for every Gandhi there is Abraham, Martin, John, and Bobby and millions more nameless individuals who have been eliminated from the mix. This is a very serious thread with no simple answers.
All we, who love Peace, can really do is follow such great example as Gandhi and "Be the change we want to see in the World", educate our children as best we can, and hope for evolution.

#12 Michaelangelica

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 05:43 AM

Interesting and thoughtful essay thanks.
Is this a fair summary?
Your assumptions
  • "violence of any kind simply works."
  • violence is built in -"not learned behaviour. It to at least some extent is built in, almost certainly in us as well."
  • "bullying is at all levels of organizations right down to the individual."

Your answers

  • Overreaction works "Just as in the wild animal world physical contests within a species are primarily bluff and bravado, where death is rare,"
  • Be prepared anyway "Fortunately my Dad had taught me defensive fighting"
  • Non violence works too "Mahatma Gandhi and his non-violent successes both individually and in thwarting the entire British Empire and that gives me great hope"
  • Look to yourself first "Be the change we want to see in the World", (Currently my email signature quote!)
Let me have a think. :)
( I have raised thousands of kittens and managed to teach them all to share and be loving to all. I had a three - four year waiting list for them.)

#13 enorbet2

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 06:37 AM

Sorry for this little top post but I have yet to learn how to handle lists with the aplomb that you do Michaelangelica so please bear with me. In the interest of time I will fumble around as best I can, even if it is crude.

Interesting and thoughtful essay thanks.
Is this a fair summary?
Your assumptions

  • "violence of any kind simply works."


Maybe I didn't qualify that well in that, yes it does work, but possibly like my dealing with lists, is crude since it can also backfire a la endless feuds, often that go on so long the original affront has been lost. Major bullies see that as merely failing to eliminate ALL enemies/threats, part of why such a "solution" is often primitive and blunt, subject to unintended side-effects and collateral damage. An example might be how the Red Brigade came to an end over the assassination of exactly the wrong government official, not from mere reprisal, but the turnabout of public sympathies.

  • violence is built in -"not learned behaviour. It to at least some extent is built in, almost certainly in us as well."


  • This is oversimplification on my part not qualified within that post but hopefully in the context of my other one here on this subject, is qualified by my assertion that learning is still involved, behaviour modification still works to a degree since our base urges can be reinforced and amplified or thwarted and diminished and such is part and parcel of the nature of civilization.


  • "bullying is at all levels of organizations right down to the individual."

  • Your answers

    • Overreaction works "Just as in the wild animal world physical contests within a species are primarily bluff and bravado, where death is rare,"
    • Be prepared anyway "Fortunately my Dad had taught me defensive fighting"
    • Non violence works too "Mahatma Gandhi and his non-violent successes both individually and in thwarting the entire British Empire and that gives me great hope"
    • Look to yourself first "Be the change we want to see in the World", (Currently my email signature quote!)


    Since I'd rather be embarassed for something I actually did rather than some misunderstanding let me assure you that was an awful oversight on my part and not some attempt to curry favor. Obviously though I am glad to see such a concept proliferate. Imagine the world in which everyone wished to have that as their sig. Wow! I'm not imagining Utopia here since it seems to me that conflict is an essential ingredient to Energy. It is how that conflict is balanced and/or resolved that matters most, IMHO.

    Let me have a think. :)
    ( I have raised thousands of kittens and managed to teach them all to share and be loving to all. I had a three - four year waiting list for them.)


    I have not raised thousands but I have lived with many and in a wide variety of environments, with as many as eight at one time under one roof. I am neither a cat person nor a dog person. I just like animals and they like me, even some vicious to others. FWIW that fierce kitty was effectively behaviour modded in a short time and turned out very well. Cats aren't necessarily aloof, they just have a sense of dignity :turtle:

    Thanks for the stimulating thread

    #14 pamela

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    Posted 30 May 2009 - 06:58 AM

    hmmmnn ....being bullied in adulthood.

    Reminds me of my last position. I went to work for a company after being sought out and baited for the big bucks and growth potential.My boss, and i choose not to call him my superior for many reasons as in my mind, he has become the lesser.Within the first few weeks it was obvious that there was more motive in hiring me than my experience . After repeatedly declining his advances, the job became pure hell. He would walk over to my desk, whack me in the back of my head and simply say that it just made him feel better. at times he would scream so loudly at me and although the mistakes made were by my staff and not me, that it would make the girls in the office cry. The warehouse people would peak thru the window just to see who was being massacred. And of course, it was always me.I worked very hard for this company, increased the sales, improved client relations and turned the previous problems around. There wasnt any justification in what he did. It became an absolute nitemare. After taking this bs for a year, i had finally had enough.Now you may be thinking that i clocked this cat in the jaw and trust me the thought had crossed my mind on more than a few occasions.However, once the screams began and the onlookers gathered, o, maybe about 25 of them. I let him have it.Verbally.I didnt care anymore about insubordination or loss of job, it didnt matter. It was about self respect.Well, it shut that jerk right up.Through out the day, the staff were smiling and winking and i had a few pats on the back in their approval of my actions.While i do not advocate violence, i do promote self respect. How you view yourself is extremely important and respect should be way up on the list.
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    #15 Moontanman

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    Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:12 AM

    violence begets violence.....
    It would appear Moontanman, that you became that which you were against. Beating up the bullies, made you the larger bully.


    Pamela :hihi: do you honestly believe that defending my self made me a bully? I never sought out anyone to intimidate, I simply didn't allow anyone the pleasure of intimidating me. I didn't always win (or even mostly win) but me being willing to fight if it was pushed on me took my off the list of people it was fun to bully. I was a little guy, no one would have taken me seriously as a bully. :hihi:

    As an adult most confrontations do indeed take on a more verbal aspect. Verbal is just that, say what you want let me say what i want, i am pretty good at verbal defense but I have never taken the idea of violence off the table if it is directed at me. If you are in the middle of a verbal tirade and you poke me or push me you will get poked or pushed back. It's just not in me to allow my self to be physically abused. If that make me a bad human then i am a bad human. In my adult life I have never had to hit anyone, I've come very close a few times but my need for self defense doesn't include striking first and a good verbal response has been sufficient so far in my adult life. :hyper:

    #16 pamela

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    Posted 30 May 2009 - 04:09 PM

    Pamela do you honestly believe that defending my self made me a bully?


    When I was in school doing my best to kick the bullies *** worked well for me.

    hmmm sounds more like alpha male and ego dude, did i misunderstand?





    I didn't always win but the bully seldom wanted to risk it more than a few times.

    so a couple good brawls is an end to a means?

    I also defended other kids from bullies, mostly my nerdy buddies but I grew up hard.

    saviour syndrome or just looking cool?

    Knuckling under to a bully was just out of the question

    . Yup, pride from the Apha male..

    My youngest son managed to bloody a bullies nose once in the neighborhood and learned that bullies fear nothing worse than a victim who stands up to them.

    i am curious did you praise his deed or show him a better way with nonviolence in response to his action?

    As an adult most confrontations do indeed take on a more verbal aspect. Verbal is just that, say what you want let me say what i want, i am pretty good at verbal defense but I have never taken the idea of violence off the table if it is directed at me. If you are in the middle of a verbal tirade and you poke me or push me you will get poked or pushed back.

    might be a good idea to let go of the emotion and speak clearly and concisely- you can convey your thoughts without it getting out of control

    It's just not in me to allow my self to be physically abused. If that make me a bad human then i am a bad human.

    silly! no one thinks you are a bad human nor would i want you to be abused. I do however know that you are capable of calm intelligent conversations, your posts in this forum have reflected that:)

    #17 LaurieAG

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    Posted 30 May 2009 - 05:29 PM

    Hi Pamela, all,

    I have worn spectacles for most of my life and I have scars under both of my eyebrows due to accidents not related to personal violence.

    Due to this obvious sight threatening disadvantage I do not engage in fights.

    I have been involved in 3 incidents (in my entire life) where I was assaulted by other people while wearing my spectacles.

    (a) I had the **** belted out of me by using the passive Gandhi defense at high school.

    (:hihi: I had my spectacles broken when I walked through a crowd on a footpath and was given a forearm jolt to the throat (your legs go out from under you).

    © and my reaction to being king hit from behind on a dark street.

    These incidents weren't the result of anything to do with Alpha males, rather the opposite.