If I ask google "what is 8 meters minus 3 meters?", it will answer "5 meters". Does it 'know' the answer? Does it posses that 'knowledge'? You say that it does not know because all that can be known is known through consciousness and I think we would both agree that google is not conscious.
you are confusing knowledge as a collection of information from the faculty of knowing.
But, the example demonstrates that we are defining consciousness with knowledge and defining knowledge with consciousness.
that is why i am using the word "knowingness" as a faculty of consciousness. you are talking "knowledge" as the contents or objects of consciousness.
If I ask my dog "where is your bone?", she will go directly to wherever she has hidden it and bring it to me. At what point does this become knowledge?
dogs i suppose have subjective experience. we know that they are sentient. google arent.
Google, my dog, and humans all *seem* to 'know' things, but if we have to know which is conscious of their own existence before we decide which has knowledge then knowledge itself cannot tell us which is conscious.
knowledge cannot tell us anything.
consciousness is the knower of existence.
I think I'm probably being confusing, so let me go about this a bit differently. Given this:
I might go to this website: A. L. I. C. E. and try to determine if Alice has consciousness. I have the following conversation:
Does Alice meet the criteria above for having a consciousness? She appears to have knowledge of her own existence, but you make the further addendum that all knowledge is known through consciousness. Therefore Alice is conscious if her stated knowledge comes from consciousness—she is conscious if she is conscious. In a practical sense, that doesn't really help us.
actually it is fundamental that one must know to be said to be conscious.
in practical terms, there is no need to answer the question how sentience came about from matter.
I would submit that knowledge is not strictly the domain of consciousness. My dog might know things even if she doesn't understand her own existence i.e. even if she is not conscious.
consciousness has many aspects. knowing arises thru discrimination in consciousnesses. when was the first time you know that you are you? as far perhaps as 4 years old. but as a baby, you have no knowledge and yet babies are well accepted as conscious being.
you see, you try to define consciousness with some kind of criteria from a certain point of view, but the fact is that consciousness is what defines you to be what you know your self to be right now.
without consciousness .... there is no dog neither you.
I would suggest that consciousness is not only knowledge of oneself, but understanding and recognizing oneself. This might seem like a trivial difference, but I think it is important in a practical sense. ~modest
i suggest that consciousness is the reason why we know. why we see, why we perceive. the seer, the knower, the perceptor.
understanding and recognizing oneself is this consciousness already identifying with "something". it is already mentioned by H-Bomb, as secondary consciousness. which is also called self awareness. it is consciousness in an act of self reflection.