Pyrotex Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 i think i can help you with this, but perhaps not here (hypo)only after you believe can you begin to understand.Goku,I did believe. No one in my family believed more than I did.I even considered the ministry.That was my undoing. I felt that becoming a "preacher" required a LOT more study and reasoning than just following the weekly Bible lesson and listening to other folks give sermons.So, I started at Genesis 1:1 and read the whole Bible just as I would read any other great epic book: from beginning to end in a short period of time.This raised many, many questions that disturbed me.So, I started at Genesis 1:1 again and read the whole Bible. Again. That's when I began to realize that what the preachers had told me was in the Bible, wasn't what was REALLY in the Bible. And lots of what was REALLY in the Bible wasn't believable. So now I truly understand the Bible, because I have read it thoroughly and totally and completely without omission or bias. And because I understand it, I cannot believe it. And by the way, I would be very careful going around believing in things BEFORE you understand them. Could be dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted December 26, 2008 Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 The differences between left and right brain are not so clear cut because both sides of the brain are used at the same time. But I am of the belief that one only side is conscious at a time with the opposite side providing unconscious support. What I was correlating was only the conscious aspect. I was using the assumption of self awareness. Let me give an example. Say someone was depressed. Because humans are self aware one has the capability of being aware that they are depressed even if they can't do anything about it. There are two things going on in the brain, at the same time. I think therefore I am, implies a conscious awareness that can separate from pure unconsciousness where these two thing merge. Relative to two sides of the brain, both sides will light up. But there are two affects at the same time with only half conscious at a time. Let me give a better example; addiction. At a conscious level of the spectator, one can see this is not healthy behavior. But the addict, if not self aware, merges with the impulses. It takes practice to make them aware they can separate themselves from the behavior. Once that second point of view is created they become able to differentiate the subtle details, when these becomes active, that were once totally unconscious to them. They were always there, just they had no means, previously, to collect first hand data and see how consciousness was helping to reinforce the unconscious impulses. Brain scan data will see merged results from two hemispheres. One side is more conscious but it takes practice to isolate this into a separate affect. The brain will still light up on both sides, whether one is consciously aware or not. For example, say we ran an experiment where we compare the brain scans of atheists versus religious people. Internally these are very different, although just looking at these people on the surface before they tell you their inner beliefs, one may not be able to differentiate. The question is would one see as big a difference in the scan, as the debate makes it out to be? If these are different, than it may take both practices to exercise the entire brain. If they are barely different, brain scans are sort of limited in its ability to see such huge differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Goku,I did believe. No one in my family believed more than I did.I even considered the ministry.That was my undoing. I felt that becoming a "preacher" required a LOT more study and reasoning than just following the weekly Bible lesson and listening to other folks give sermons.So, I started at Genesis 1:1 and read the whole Bible just as I would read any other great epic book: from beginning to end in a short period of time.This raised many, many questions that disturbed me.So, I started at Genesis 1:1 again and read the whole Bible. Again. That's when I began to realize that what the preachers had told me was in the Bible, wasn't what was REALLY in the Bible. And lots of what was REALLY in the Bible wasn't believable. So now I truly understand the Bible, because I have read it thoroughly and totally and completely without omission or bias. And because I understand it, I cannot believe it. And by the way, I would be very careful going around believing in things BEFORE you understand them. Could be dangerous. where to begin? no one can just decide to be a preacher, if you ever hear anyone say that they decided to be a preacher know then that they do not have the truth in them. how can i, you just can't imagine, the difference between your world and mine,have you ever seen the movie The Matrix?i think the best way for me to descibe it is, the matrix has you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 where to begin? no one can just decide to be a preacher, if you ever hear anyone say that they decided to be a preacher know then that they do not have the truth in them. how can i, you just can't imagine, the difference between your world and mine,have you ever seen the movie The Matrix?i think the best way for me to descibe it is, the matrix has you No goku the illusion has you, reality is much bigger than you can see at this time but we can help to see if you open your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 No goku the illusion has you, reality is much bigger than you can see at this time but we can help to see if you open your eyes. you have never seen nor can you imagine my reallity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 you have never seen nor can you imagine my reallity. True, nor can you imagine mine, yours is a myth based on fantasy inside your head, mine encompasses the entire universe and is full of real things beyond your reckoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 now be fair, Moontanman, that is his illusion and your's is in alien life on another planet- we can be different and believe whatever, even if if doesn't make sense to others.We are individuals with different ideas and concepts: and that my friend, makes for one really interesting stay on this planet:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 now be fair, Moontanman, that is his illusion and your's is in alien life on another planet- we can be different and believe whatever, even if if doesn't make sense to others.We are individuals with different ideas and concepts: and that my friend, makes for one really interesting stay on this planet:) What are you talking about? I don't claim to be in touch with aliens. Only possibility of aliens is a very tiny part of reality, it's no illusion. I would never claim an illusion to be real in the face of facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 True, nor can you imagine mine, yours is a myth based on fantasy inside your head, mine encompasses the entire universe and is full of real things beyond your reckoning. what part of the universe teaches you right and wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 what part of the universe teaches you right and wrong? My interactions with other people and my society, humans like other animals have an innate sense of what is right, we don't always follow it but it's there, it evolved along with our species and our social organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 i am referring to your belief, Moontanman, of which there is no evidence to support alien life. You think there maybe, just like Goku thinks there is a God- whatever you guys think, it's okay.No one is sitting in judgement here, this is an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 i am referring to your belief, Moontanman, of which there is no evidence to support alien life. You think there maybe, just like Goku thinks there is a God- whatever you guys think, it's okay.No one is sitting in judgement here, this is an observation. No, my idea that there might be alien life is a tiny infinitesimal part of my reality. If alien life is never found my reality will not change and i will be ok with it. Goku's reality is God, nothing else, he cannot conceive there being no god and nothing could possibly shake this belief from him, not even reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 okay, but if that works for Goku, then what's the problem? i know so many people with different belief systems, some religious to the extreme and others to nature only, and everything in between.I listen and find it truly fascinating. I do not try to sway anyone to what i believe reality to be, they have their own. Its not my job to convert people to a scientific view, But i will provide data when asked. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 okay, but if that works for Goku, then what's the problem? i know so many people with different belief systems, some religious to the extreme and others to nature only, and everything in between.I listen and find it truly fascinating. I do not try to sway anyone to what i believe reality to be, they have their own. Its not my job to convert people to a scientific view, But i will provide data when asked. :( I could care less what goku believes but his claim to having some sort of superior special knowledge that no one else can have or understand is bullshit. Just more of the same religious clap trap they cover themselves with so they can feel and appear superior to others and use this feeling of superiority to influence others into the fold. As long as he doesn't lay claim to some superior knowledge none of the rest of can have or achieve with out joining his cult he can believe anything. Anyone can learn reality through science in what ever depth you need but only the believers can gain the BS he is selling. Although he has said many times that I cannot know his beliefs I do indeed know them and their permutations. His is a self fulfilling prophecy, to know it you must believe with out question, to question it mean you don't really believe. It's a dangerous path and it often leads to places like Jonestown and dead people..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 hmmnn..you do seem to be quite passionate about "saving" him from himself and his religion. Well, i commend your effort to endow facts and knowledge upon him, but in the end, he will choose that which "feels" right to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 what part of the universe teaches you right and wrong?Parental indoctrination.Experience. Role models.The observation of consequences.The wisdom of the elders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I could care less what goku believes but his claim to having some sort of superior special knowledge that no one else can have or understand is bullshit. Just more of the same religious clap trap they cover themselves with so they can feel and appear superior to others and use this feeling of superiority to influence others into the fold. As long as he doesn't lay claim to some superior knowledge none of the rest of can have or achieve with out joining his cult he can believe anything. Anyone can learn reality through science in what ever depth you need but only the believers can gain the BS he is selling. Although he has said many times that I cannot know his beliefs I do indeed know them and their permutations. His is a self fulfilling prophecy, to know it you must believe with out question, to question it mean you don't really believe. It's a dangerous path and it often leads to places like Jonestown and dead people..... who are you talking about?jonestown? jonestown???? forgive me Lord for my failures........ if that is what you think of me as, truly i have failed greatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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