Talk about God from a biology forum thread

[pamela]

originally posted by CraigD

My take on it, though, is that a simple, key requirement is honesty.

I do not feel that I am being dishonest, just selective to whom I choose to share parts of me:)

atheists should take pains to assure that theists with whom they interact know they don’t share their beliefs.

Considering all my acquaintances are either Christian or Muslim, we have had many heated discussions and some very comical ones as well.Occasionaly, a few of them still throw out the attempt at converting me to their particular brand of religion, but by and large, they accept me as I am.They do not fully understand my personal ideology, but they see me as someone who accepts them as individuals, despite the differences.

This is a difficult dichotomy, requiring that we both understand that the supernatural is not real, but our psychological tendency to believe in the supernatural is. Our mental health, as individuals and as a society, depends, I think, on our ability to embrace these two conflicting realities.

Indeed, and in that understanding, I choose to season my conversations with kindness and that now dreaded word "respect";)

to ensure a peaceful coexistance:)

[C1ay]

Civility between atheists and theists is a complicated subject. My take on it, though, is that a simple, key requirement is honesty. Though it’s impractical to reply to a Wal-Mart clerk’s “have a blessed day” with more than a noncommittal "thank you", when circumstances permit, atheists should take pains to assure that theists with whom they interact know they don’t share their beliefs. Too many and too often atheists succumb to the convenient practice of allowing theists to assume they too are theists (and, less often, vice versa)...

 

Quite often I find that allowing theists to assume what they wish fosters civility. While atheist I generally refer to myself as humanist and that is the primary ideology I project in my community. I strive to donate 20 or more hours of my time each week to helping others. Living in the heart of the southern bible belt it is not uncommon for me to hear wishes that other Christians would behave more as I do......until someone figures out that humanist is another label for atheist. It is then that a lot of southern Baptists shun me and treat me as if I am the anti-Christ. After that it seems that many of them are suddenly blind to my avid humanism and see only the beast referred to in their scripture. They make me feel unwelcome in their midst in spite of my efforts to continue helping those in need. I find that I prefer exercising my humanist practices and letting them enjoy their delusion than revealing the truth and spoiling it for them. I'm only interested in making their life better than it might be without me even if it means letting them believe their delusion.

[Pyrotex]

Good one, Craig.

I, too, am in the Bible Belt, here in Houston, Texas. The vast majority of the NASA (and contractor) engineers I work with are Christians. A significant portion of them have crosses on their desks or computers -- or have Bibles sitting out (where they can be obviously seen). It is a "lubricant" to the social machinery to allow them (in general) to assume I am a christian. It's bad enough that my wheelchair "disturbs" many of them. To add on to that that I am a registered Democrat, a social liberal, AND an ex-christian atheist might be more than some of them could handle. :)

 

But I do draw the line. Once in a hair salon I used to frequent, the owner invited me to whistle a song for some of his clients. I did so. One woman was astonished at my talent and insisted that "God had given me a wonderful gift". The third time she gushed this, I turned with a smile and said, "No ma'am. It was not a gift by any means. I started whistling when I was seven years old, and I had to practice several hours every day, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year, for thirty years before I got this good. It was a lot of hard work, and I did it all. But thanks for the complement."

 

She was stunned. I mean visibly shocked that I would decline to give "the glory" to God. I just smiled and thanked her. :shrug:

[goku]

I am a registered Democrat, a social liberal

 

that explains alot, you don't know how many times i thought to myself he must be a liberal democrat

[Pyrotex]

that explains alot, you don't know how many times i thought to myself he must be a liberal democrat

If you think that explains a lot about me, then you have deeply deceived yourself.

 

The world is full of simple, straight-forward, easy to understand explanations and solutions -- that are wrong.

[InfiniteNow]

Mmmmm...that's not the original question & the only help Goku deserves is out the door. :naughty: Honestly people, this is the 21st frickin' century! This kind of tripe is still getting serious discussion? :hyper: Give me a break. :naughty:

 

Since the rules don't seem to matter...

 

Careful, Mr. Turtle. I, too, felt this EXACT frustration some months back, and by expressing it openly like you are here managed to get myself banned. That won't happen to you, of course, but do be aware of how you let your frustration come through.

 

 

"hehe... he said doobie."

[Turtle]

Careful, Mr. Turtle. I, too, felt this EXACT frustration some months back, and by expressing it openly like you are here managed to get myself banned. That won't happen to you, of course, but do be aware of how you let your frustration come through.

 

 

"hehe... he said doobie." :hyper:

 

:naughty: I'm keeping your mistakes in mind & trying to work around them. :fly: At the very least, I intend to make differenet mistakes. :evil: The infraction system is a good idea, if not a bit sluggish at times. Y'all can speed this up by reporting Goku's posts. Again, this is a science site, Goku is a religious believer posting religious belief and not a scientist, he is flaunting the rules here, ergo he does not deserve to stay. It aint rocket science people.

 

:naughty:

[REASON]

I'm keeping your mistakes in mind & trying to work around them. :D At the very least, I intend to make differenet mistakes. :hihi: The infraction system is a good idea, if not a bit sluggish at times. Y'all can speed this up by reporting Goku's posts. Again, this is a science site, Goku is a religious believer posting religious belief and not a scientist, he is flaunting the rules here, ergo he does not deserve to stay. It aint rocket science people.

 

 

I've experienced your frustration as well, Turtle the "Unclean." But I've come to the realization that the greatest benefit to continually debunking goku's misstatements and non-scientific positions in these threads is the sheer number of people out there that think and form their beliefs just like he does. These types of logical fallacies can't be identified and corrected if they are not allowed to be stated.

[Pyrotex]

...These types of logical fallacies can't be identified and corrected if they are not allowed to be stated.

Good point. And I say that because *I* needed to hear that.

 

The source of frustration is attachment, as the Buddha would say. Truthfully.

 

We are attached to having our facts and logic heeded. We are attached to a specific outcome: the believer becomes a thinker, or at least learns something in the process. We are attached to the "power" of our words. We are attached to the results we want so badly, and think we deserve.

 

Well, hello... the believer has a different set of attachments. Maybe he learns but doesn't want to give us the satisfaction of knowing. Maybe he is learning impaired. Maybe he has been "nail-gunned" to his beliefs and cannot even imagine the possibility of getting loose. Maybe he was taught to literally hate those who understand science, and is here just for the vendetta.

 

On the other hand, what about that invisible cloud of lurkers who read this thread. Maybe they read and learn. Maybe it is they who have the "Ahas". Pehaps our real influence is upon them. We cannot know for sure. But one thing we can do is manage our attachment. We yearn to win the "lost child" over to "truth and knowledge" and get to feel good about ourselves. Hey, we get no guarantees. And if we're too attached to the results, we are the ones who will do the suffering, and Ignorance wins the game.

 

:hihi:

[Turtle]

Good point. And I say that because *I* needed to hear that.

 

The source of frustration is attachment, as the Buddha would say. Truthfully.

 

Well, I am attached to you dear Winston, that is fo shizzle!. Got yer back 2, Reason. :kiss: :hihi: Love you most of all, lurking Readers. :hihi:

Nonetheless, I am and will remain, a reasonably harsh critic of Goku and others like him here. If you want to go the lame reduction route that science is just a belief, go right ahead. This being a science site, I came here believing I wouldn't have to spend my time debunking religious stuff. I believe the rules here reflect my belief, and I believe I recall that I read them before I joined to make sure that was what I was getting. This religious @$@#%#&$@Q at Hypog is offending to me and as I seem to have acquired a modicum of virtual political capital here, I intend to spend it. :hihi: :eek2: :eek_big:

[C1ay]

Moon- This is categorically untrue. There is no evidence that can be demonstrated by the scientific method (that I know of), but that certainly does not mean there is no evidence.

 

Could you list any examples of such evidence?

 

:hihi:

 

Did hell freeze over yet?

[pamela]

originally posted by Turtle

This being a science site, I came here believing I wouldn't have to spend my time debunking religious stuff. I believe the rules here reflect my belief, and I believe I recall that I read them before I joined to make sure that was what I was getting.

for those who may have overlooked the theology forum rules:)

 

This is not a forum for preaching the word of God (regardless of which one you may subscribe to). It is a forum for rational discussion of religious thought, and varieties thereof. How does science and religion interact? How does religion impact society? What is the role of religion in education? Why are wars fought over religious ideas? These are examples of topics we hope to see here.

 

This is not the place to discuss Bible verses, nor is it the place to explain why your religion is much better than the alternatives. There are plenty of forums for that on the web already. Please respect our wishes to maintain a forum which first and foremost concerns the scientific aspects of religion, and not the faith aspects of it.

 

Preaching will not be tolerated, and all our usual rules apply

.

[Turtle]

for those who may have overlooked the theology forum rules:)

 

.[/b]

 

Roger that. Also for those'ns, we oldsters here remember that we created the Theolgy section in the first place to try and curb the spate of creationsit believers joining to post religious views in science threads during the Kansas trial over trying to get creationism into schools under the guise of "inteliigent design". That effort by we Hypography members to accomadate theologic discussions here by making a Theology section and a special set of rules, has not worked out in my opinion as evidenced by the continuation of god folk here to ignore those rules.

 

I won't stay quiet anymore than I would if someone came in my house & put their feet up on my table. If they did that twice, there'd be no third visit. A spade is not a rake. :hihi:

[Moontanman]

Did hell freeze over yet?

 

From what I understand Hitler ice skates every day!

[Pyrotex]

...This being a science site, I came here believing I wouldn't have to spend my time debunking religious stuff. ...This religious @$@#%#&$@ at Hypog is offending to me and as I seem to have acquired a modicum of virtual political capital here, I intend to spend it. :) :eek2:

Turkle, me boy,

I'm in your corner and on your side. I have already taken a stand for goku's permanent dismissal on several occassions. Now, if those noble Titans in the Hall of the Mountain King will just reach a concensus on this issue, we may indeed get some relief.

I hope.

 

Pyro the Persistent

[Turtle]

Turkle, me boy,

I'm in your corner and on your side. I have already taken a stand for goku's permanent dismissal on several occassions. Now, if those noble Titans in the Hall of the Mountain King will just reach a concensus on this issue, we may indeed get some relief.

I hope.

 

Pyro the Persistent

 

Thnx Pop. While Pugnacious may be one of my middle names, Persistence is my last. You can't rush a fine grind. :) Nothing cheeses my chaps more than to read a snub by Googoo of one of you Titans' pragmatic posts. When the carrot & the stick have failed, it's time to get out the axe.

 

Here's why it's important to hack out this talk about God crapulance in the biology forum in no uncertain terms: >>

NSTA :: News Story

U.S. Students' Science Scores Lag Behind Other Developed Nations

 

1/2/2008 - NSTA Reports

 

U.S. students are being outscored in science by their peers in Finland, Canada, and Estonia, among others, according to data from the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA). Conducted by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), PISA found nearly a quarter of 15-year-old students in the United States did not demonstrate competencies at the baseline level, a finding that does not surprise NSTA Executive Director Gerry Wheeler.

“Why would we be surprised?” Wheeler asked. He noted other recent assessments have yielded similar results. “Science is not being strongly emphasized in U.S. classrooms, and science educators need more resources to deliver sound lessons to students.” ...

[pamela]

the staff decided to close thread as the topic has been thoroughly addressed. If you would like to start a new thread concerning a theological discussion, please adhere to the theology forum rules