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Is armageddon going to happen?


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#35 paigetheoracle

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 04:53 AM

Is armageddon going to Happen? Quite likely because if you look at reality it is composed of layers (trees, The Earths mantle, skin etc) which shows that creation alternates with destruction or at least cessation of form/ effort. Not only are there the great extinctions among biological life but ice ages, periods of volcanic eruptions and amongst humans layers of peace, alternating with war or on the personal level 'conflict' of some sort. If animals and mineral forms can become extinct then why not humans, through their own hand or at the hand of something else in the natural scheme of things.

It is easy (see also '2112' in Weird Claims) to predict the beginning and end of something because new things come into existence all the time and old ones die away - life is a journey, so on the conveyor belt of reality, we all get on at some point as individuals or races/animals/life forms/minerals and off again at the other end (Nobody stays here forever - even the sun will bow out at some point - hot stuff lasts longer as cooling is death).

#36 Michaelangelica

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 12:24 PM

Where does your outlook of the future fit into your brand of Sci-fi? [I Heart Tech]
February 25th, 2008
When you think about the future, do you see a bright, shiny world that’s free of disease, war and poverty or do you see a barren, smoldering landscape with scattered humans trying desperately to survive?
Are you a pessimist or an optimist, a realist or a pragmatist?
Out there somewhere is a futuristic world waiting for you.
These are broad generalizations and not full plot synopses– just something to give you an idea of where you stand.
. . .
EG
Underlying outlook: Humanity may never reach a golden age, or even really get to explore the heavens. Long before that, humans will be the agent of their own downfall due to inherent, but unavoidable flaws.
Examples of sci-Fi that reflect this: War of the Worlds, Mad Max, Planet of the Apes, Terminator, The Day After Tomorrow, Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, I Robot, Jurassic Park

I Heart Chaos: One more reason to get outside more often

#37 HydrogenBond

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:06 PM

Armageddon is from bible prophesies. If you read beyond the destruction part, Armageddon ushers in a new beginning. If you look at this from the point of view of evolution, in light of prophesies, this new beginning is better than before. Armageddon could be analogous to the end of the cold blooded dinosaurs, so the warm blooded mammals have a chance. The first cycle led to humans version 1.0. Maybe the second cycle or Armageddon brings in human version 2.0. The drama suggests it first needs to have a massive recall of version 1.0 for genetic retooling. The bible indirectly talks about the new advanced genetics for human version 2.0. It talks about complete disease resistance, as well as life expectancies like that of a tree, i.e., 120-150 years.

The bible version tells of a psycho-drama, sort of an escalation of events that brings out the best and worse in people, due to stress. Version 2.0 may require a good brain fry, so the version 1.0 wiring gets shorted. The people left over are sort of battle fatigued. It is sort of like going into finals on the margin of good grades. There is tons of stress and things to do, but one has to push on. After it is done, one is fried. But after a little rest and seeing one bumped up all their grades there is joy. You have graduated.

#38 Ahmabeliever

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:33 PM

Sci Fi's eutopian societies are generally extended versions of what we have. A public misled that everything is ok (though who believes that now) and below the surface govt manipulating things to their own ends.

For a eutopic society - post armageddon or not - we need govt transparency. It seems to be a rare thing indeed where power does not corrupt.

Has democracy done it's dash. Will democracy bring us armageddon.

I think we need a system of 1 vote per iq point.

As people are 'dumbed down' by media medicine and malaise, so are their choices for government. We vote for those we most identify with. If they happen to be fundamentalist creationists, then fundamentalist creationist governments get to run the place - thanks to democracy.

The other driving force, besides the average voters low iq, that makes democracy 'averse to the greater good of all' is corporate sponsorship. You know, I know, we all know, they don't give a fig.

So we (maybe not you but the dumbass majority who believe most everything they're told) vote for the idiots we most identify with who had the cash to advertise themselves. As for choices - generally other idiots. Unaccountable in most cases, with a personal and corporate agenda, and baldfaced liars to boot.

Anyone who thinks God tells them what to do for their nation should be either given a padded cell or a soapbox according to the severity of their egotistical delusions - not the world stage!

One day, pre or post armageddon, I hope man wakes up to itself and creates a govt that is a think tank - not composed of opposing sides - and not 'big brother'. The think tank is composed of the most brilliant minds in the country/on the planet. The agenda is pure and simple, the greater good of ALL.

#39 Thunderbird

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:56 PM

Development is a process whereby insignificant and imperceptible quantitative changes lead to fundamental, qualitative changes. The latter occur not gradually, but rapidly and abruptly, in the form of a leap from one state to another. A simple example from the physical world might be the heating of water: a one degree increase in temperature is a quantitive change, but at 100 degrees there is a qualitative change - water to steam.
:"Merely quantitative differences, beyond a certain point, pass into qualitative changes." --Karl Marx, ''Capital'', Vol. 1.


Look around at the world and can you see that we have reached a critical point in global networks. We are on the cusp of two states. A tipping point where we connect into one world, or crash into chaos. if you understand Chaos Theory however, The trick is to do both at the same time.

Basin of attraction; The set of initial states which are drawn to an attractor of the system.

For the world to successfully evolve to a higher state, one where the the whole becomes greater than the former parts, there has to be a central point of organization. Is this on the horizon ? Hope so.

Bifercation point; A point at which a system splits into two alternative behaviours, either being possible, the one actually followed often being indeterminate (unpredictable). Related to catastrophes in Catastrophe Theory.

All creation or destruction of forms, or morphogenesis, can be described by the disappearance of the attractors representing the initial forms, and their replacement (by capture) by the attractors representing the final forms. Rene Thom

Catastrophe, and destruction and even what is called evil, is necessary to evolution.


The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're going to die a horrible death, remember. It's all good training, and you'll enjoy it more if you keep the facts in mind.
Take your dying with some seriousness, however. Laughing on the way to your execution it not generally understood by less advanced lifeforms, and they'll call you crazy. Richard Bach
Illusions of A Reluctant Messiah



#40 nutronjon

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 09:30 AM

Wow, I am surprised by all the optimism. I think you all might be out of touch with reality.

One of the earliest predictions is, the earth will be destroyed by fire. Fire is symbolic of life. The prediction is, that there will be more fire/life that what is left to be consumed. There are popluations around the world that have exceeded the resources essential to life, and a mass die off is expected.

The problem is having a creation story that tells us what happens is the result of pleasing or displeasing a god. We are not paying enough attention to reality. Especially China has a huge water problem, however, as under ground water tables continue to fall, the rest of the world will notice a serious water problem too. We are using this underground water to produce food, faster than it is replenished. Israel is having a serious water supply problem, and this is one reason for warring with neighbors.

The US has exhausted gold mines, and many other mineral mines as well. It is no longer a self sufficient nation, getting rich with exports, but is now an importing nation, loosing wealth. The US is maintaining its standard of living by taking from others who will never have a chance to realize the wealth the US had, and we are being very unrealistic about this.

Right now there is not enough farm land to feed the world. An important reason to become vegetarian is, when we feed cattle grains, that means people somewhere else go hungry. Fueling our cars with corn, is causing a hunger problem for poor populations dependent on cheap corn. Our rising cost of food, is not hurting us nearly as much people in poor countries are being hurt. We are consuming their food because people who earn maybe a dollar a day, can't come close to competing with us for food grown on their soil and bought by us.

We are very smart, but are far from using our intelligence to the degree human survival demands. We are at the point, where we must do with less, and we just don't get it. This is not just a problem in technologically advanced countries, but the least technological advanced people are in serious terrible too! They are having far too many babies, and are destroying their own ecosystems in a disparate struggle for surivival.

Ahmabeliever, you have a common and unfortunate understanding of democracy. Science is to democracy what the bible is to autocracy. I am sure few understand what I am saying, but I hope some of you get it.

#41 Tolouse

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 09:57 AM

i believe so, that it will come, but we won't know the date since it is suppose to come after the rapture

and we can't tell when that is coming either

and the rapture has to occur before this armageddon

#42 nutronjon

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 10:58 AM

Wow, I had to google rapture to find out what it is. It is certianly good news. Now don't the Jews have to rebuild their temple first? Isn't this why Pat Robinson and other Christian fundamentalist, support the Jews in Israel, and oppose the Palestinians, and blindly supported a war in Iraq? Whatever, the sooner the rapture happens the better. That will hopefully reduce the earth population to a supportable number.

Wikipedia

Rapture (Protestant belief)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Christianity Portal
For other meanings, see Rapture (disambiguation).
In Christian eschatology, the Rapture is the name given to a future event in which Jesus Christ will descend from Heaven, accompanied by the spirits of all the saints of God, both from the pre-incarnation period and after, who have passed on prior to this event, and then the bodily remains of these saints are transported from the Earth to meet the Lord and be rejoined with their corresponding spirits in the air. Immediately after this, all Christians alive on the earth are simultaneously transported to meet the Lord and those who have preceded them in the air. All are transformed into immortal bodies like Jesus' body, often referred to as the "resurrection body". This doctrine gained popularity in the 1830s, and more recently in the 1970s, with proponents of the premillennialist, and in particular the dispensationalist, interpretations of scripture. However, proponents of the doctrine have argued that it can be found in the early Church fathers and the New Testament.

There is much disagreement amongst rapture proponents over when the rapture will occur in relation to the Tribulation, a seven-year period preceding the second coming of Christ to the earth, or indeed, if the duration of the Tribulation will be seven years or only a 3 1/2 year period. Some understand the tribulation of Matthew 24 as having already taken place in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem. (see Preterism). Three different views predominate. The first is that it will take place sometime prior to the Tribulation. The second is that it will take place mid-way through the Tribulation. The third is that it will take place after the Tribulation, when Christ comes to earth to establish His kingdom, the Kingdom of God, taking over rulership of the world for 1,000 years. (see Millennialism). A fourth view has recently developed, called the Pre-Wrath view.



#43 modest

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 02:31 PM

Pat Robinson and other Christian fundamentalist, support the Jews in Israel


That right there has got to be some kind of prophetic sign the apocalypse is fast on its way :)

I believe bill murray said something about cats and dogs living together... ?

-modest

"Yeah, it's the apocalypse alright. Always thought I'd have a hand in it"
-professor farnsworth

#44 Galapagos

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 03:18 PM

I guess armaggedon will arrive when th sun becomes a red giant, or when some comets start coming to earth or....

Seriously, I also sometimes wonder where we will get, I don't believe there will ever be an ending (of humanity) war; but seen the catholic fanatics rising with islamic fanatics, I would not exclude a huge religious war.


I agree, I do not foresee a war eliminating all of humanity-except the possibility of a religious war from modern fundamentalists- and I'm not even sure how likely that is(although certainly more likely than anyone would like it to be- except for the fundies themselves).
Some of the posts in this thread look like they should get moved to the theology forum, because they contain some dangerous and fictitious nonsense. The rapture is a dated piece of mythology, and I'm surprised people on a science forum can be seen taking it seriously.
People tend to want to believe that they, or their generation, will play some notable or special role in human history. It is empowering to imagine ourselves as the beginning or end of some era as opposed to just some white noise in between historic landmarks.

#45 REASON

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 09:27 PM

Rapture = Nonsense

Armageddon = Stupidity

The Rapture will not happen because it is nothing but religious myth.

Armageddon in the form of a nuclear holocaust could happen, particularly if we continue to believe in religious nonsense such as the Rapture, and attempt to fulfill it's prophesy in an effort to demostrate it's credibility.

The truth is, in such a circumstance, everyone loses.

#46 Ahmabeliever

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:57 PM

Some of the posts in this thread look like they should get moved to the theology forum, because they contain some dangerous and fictitious nonsense. The rapture is a dated piece of mythology, and I'm surprised people on a science forum can be seen taking it seriously.


The problem I foresee as others have too, is there are millions of people out there who believe this crap. The amount who think trashing the ecology is OK because Jesus is coming back and will fix it all is frightening. Businessmen, and leaders.

Self fulfilling prophesy. It's like positive reinforcement. They keep telling themselves that is how it is and huge ego'd politicians jump in wherever it looks to be tenable to help push the prophesy along - ME - I'm Gods right hand man!

Aboriginals in Australia can die of fright because their elder pointed a bone at them and said they would die. Does this mean the magic is truth, or the belief system so strong as to make it truth. Is there any truth in the matter. We have a bone pointer, and a death, exactly as it is said to happen.

But I don't believe in it. Not at all. I believe many people have not evolved in their thinking and live in the dark ages of superstitious dread. And with multiple millions of fanatics upon the Earth Armageddon is as likely as anything, not because it's true, but because there is a collective energy willing it to be true.

Bible interpretation has always been made to suit mans whim. Now the worlds a mess and species are dying and resources depleted - but it's not the warmongering ecology trashing business interests and governments fault, no, it's end times!

These people are giving up, and expecting God to save them now that they've wrecked the place.

This is why they'll get hunted down and shot in end times, not for being Gods chosen one's, for being a menace to humanity.

#47 Michaelangelica

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:27 PM

The problem I foresee as others have too, is there are millions of people out there who believe this crap. The amount who think trashing the ecology is OK because Jesus is coming back and will fix it all is frightening. Businessmen, and leaders.

Self fulfilling prophesy.

This is what interests me the social psychology of it all.

Is this why so few Yanks vote?
or
Allow Dow Corp. et. al., destroy the environment?
Because with the "end" coming there is no need to worry or do anything ? Especially if one is already "saved" or a a part of the "elect"
That is why I started the thread Christians and armegedon

I am no biblical scholar but is the armegedon story a part of the bible?


This is why they'll get hunted down and shot in end times, not for being Gods chosen one's, for being a menace to humanity.

This is an interesting reaction too.
It sounds a little like an Islamic fatwa?:hyper:

#48 modest

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:57 PM

I am no biblical scholar but is the armegedon story a part of the bible?


Oh sure, you hardly have to read between the lines in revelations or matthew 24. Actually, this should interest you:

Matthew 24:34 - I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

In other words, the people in the first century were expecting the second coming of Jesus... any day... any day now. Here we are 2000 years later and people are still making major decisions based on the idea god is going to stomp us like ants any second now. It's repulsive. Policy decisions are based on it! The most powerful nation on earth is moving its military might based on Bush's little talks with god at the foot of the bed. It's scary - it's, it's - there just aren't words for it.

-modest

#49 Ahmabeliever

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:39 PM

"This is why they'll get hunted down and shot in end times, not for being Gods chosen one's, for being a menace to humanity."

Sorry. That was very dark humour, sarcasm, and could easily be taken wrongly.

But some of these people are most definately a menace to humanity. Absolutely mindbogglingly ignorant and lots of words with *$##*!! in it.

#50 Ahmabeliever

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:41 PM

What version bible were you quoting modest?

Edit - the King James Version, New International version, and Revised Standard version all generally say what modest quoted.

The Living Bible says "Then at last this age will come to a close".

#51 modest

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 11:14 PM

What version bible were you quoting modest?

Edit - the King James Version, New International version, and Revised Standard version all generally say what modest quoted.

The Living Bible says "Then at last this age will come to a close".


Well, isn’t that interesting. Apparently the “Living Bible” (insert trade mark here) is a perfidious tool. Huh.

The king james says:
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

the word generation is from the greek genea which means exactly what our English word ‘generation’ means. I’d love to hear the folks over at the “living bible” explain that edit.

-modest