Electromagnetic motor

[ryan2006]

What if motion fueled an automobile? At first fuel would turn the motor but then a second motor run from the first would engage the capacitator to fuel the engine and the battery when the automobile ran out of gas.

[GAHD]

Some things you need to read:

Thermodynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regenerative brake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Electrical generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

THe limiting factors will allways be energy storage density.

[alexander]

well that and efficiency of such a system is actually rather low to continuously power itself. You can have the motion regenerate some power from motion to charge batteries, but will those extra few miles on empty give you enough reason to increate your weight by having to put more motors in line, and another battery pack. Also how will it change your current fuel efficiency?

[ryan2006]

If I get 20 miles to the gallon and I have a 15 gallon tank I'll be able to travel 300 miles. Can my motor produce enough electromagnetic energy to power the vehicle after motion has produced it and fuel has run out? Good question. Since I hold no PH.D and cannot factor in the conversion of heat produced by the motor that would be useful as well as the electromagnetic energy produced during the 300 miles I can not give you any useful calculations that are not allready obvious. It would depend on the design of the motor.

 

Thank you GAHD for including those things to read.

[Moontanman]

If I get 20 miles to the gallon and I have a 15 gallon tank I'll be able to travel 300 miles. Can my motor produce enough electromagnetic energy to power the vehicle after motion has produced it and fuel has run out? Good question. Since I hold no PH.D and cannot factor in the conversion of heat produced by the motor that would be useful as well as the electromagnetic energy produced during the 300 miles I can not give you any useful calculations that are not allready obvious. It would depend on the design of the motor.

 

Thank you GAHD for including those things to read.

 

Generation of electromagnetic energy by any means other than braking will decrease your MPG in exact ratio to the amount of energy produced, there is no free lunch! I'm not sure how waste heat could be used to generate electricity but if you could that would be a way to reclaim some lost energy along with braking force. Any attempt to use the engine to directly generate electricity will use energy and cut your MPG.

[ryan2006]

Using magnetic cyclinders on the axls, drive trane and making discs within the inner wheel well and placing a disc next to it that is all magnetic would create heat which can be transfered to electricity along with the cylinders surrounding those parts above mentioned to create electromagnetic energy. In current motors they are called the brush.

[Moontanman]

Using magnetic cyclinders on the axls, drive trane and making discs within the inner wheel well and placing a disc next to it that is all magnetic would create heat which can be transfered to electricity along with the cylinders surrounding those parts above mentioned to create electromagnetic energy. In current motors they are called the brush.

 

No matter how you do it generating electricity causes friction, friction needs power to overcome it, so using anything to generate electricity from these points on a vehicle will drop your MPG in a direct ratio to the amount of energy generated minus the efficiency of the generator. You will come out with less power than you had to begin with. You can't get something for nothing. It is possible to use something like a sterling engine to use waste heat but you cannot use a generator to gain any energy from the motion of the vehicle other than from braking force.

[alexander]

right, so lets say you use direct drive (which makes your car efficiency go up by a huge factor) lets say you have brake energy regeneration in the form of some mass being spun with your axees, and when you brake the enertia regenerates some power. lets say you use a small 3 cylinder diesel engine and run it on bio diesel to generate your power (mind you electric engine is driving all of the time), um what else, you have the newest battery technology, high capacity, high output batteries, a full CF body, a power socket and solar pannel painted into your roof. (why do i say 3 cylinder instead of one? they are quieter, make more power and are surprisingly more energy efficient then one two or four cylinder engines.... as well as better balanced, dunno why)

 

there is not many more places you can generate energy that will not take away from this vehicle, i mean granted you have a small enough 3 cyl in it, you will effectively have a 100-150mpg car, if not a lot more... you can use a tiny engine with air cooling built into the design somehow to cut on weight, composites everywhere and least possible parts to make it work....

[ryan2006]

Motion can fuel a car without regenerative brakes included. The axls, wheels, and drive trane are always spinning as a result of fuel wether electricical force or gas. Wind motion causes a wind turbine to create power so why can't a vehicle do the same?

[Moontanman]

Motion can fuel a car without regenerative brakes included. The axls, wheels, and drive trane are always spinning as a result of fuel wether electricical force or gas. Wind motion causes a wind turbine to create power so why can't a vehicle do the same?

 

No it cannot, any attempt to generate power from anything other than waste heat or regenerative braking will cause extra drag and drag eats extra fuel. there is no way around it. Tapping any of the spinning parts to generate electricity makes them harder to turn which means more fuel to turn them. Using the motion of the air over a moving car to generate electricity causes drag which also eats more fuel. You cannot get something for nothing.

[ryan2006]

That's why wind power generators work, right? You don't know what you are talking about we sent people to the moon.

[Moontanman]

That's why wind power generators work, right? You don't know what you are talking about we sent people to the moon.

 

Don't be insulting ryan, wind generators work by friction with the wind. When the wind turns the turbines blades some of the energy of the wind is transfered to the blades. This transfer of energy slows down the air that passed through the blades. If you tried to use the motion of the car as energy to turn a turbine the friction with the wind would slow down the car. That is why MPG improves if the car is more aerodynamic. Anything that would capture the energy from air passing over the car would slow down the car. Yes I know we sent people to the moon but that was done in complete compliance with the laws of thermodynamics. What you want to do violates the laws of thermodynamics.

[alexander]

Ryan, Moon is a very respected person, i'd appologise in your place. I have a hint that either you are not understanding something, or you are not explaining your thoughts in a manner that we may have a hint as to what the hell you are actually proposing.

 

Here is what we've been trying to explain to you

 

start with your axle regen:

 

We understand that you are basically saying to put magnets around the axles and coils around axles, and any time you are moving, you are generating back some power. This is true and this will work, and if we were in near weightlessness this may even have a decent degree of efficiency, like close to 80%, problem is that in order to facilitate any amount of power generation from motion, you need 2 things. One, you need magnets, two you need a coil. it matters little which one spins around what, rare earth magnets can be cast into the axle, this however already makes the axle heaver, and bulkier, then you need to add copper wound coils around the axles to generate power, and i dunno if you've ever played with any large electric motors, but they are heavy, and thus the design, unless you can come up with efficiency of over 1, will increase the total consumption of fuel in the end.

 

regeneration using air:

 

this one, so far, just sounds like you know not the first thing about car design, airodynamics, drag coefficients, oh and wind mills. problem is, that in order to regenerate power from wind, you need a device that will create wind resistence, and utilize that resitance to turn a motor. This creates 2 issues, one, you still have to have a motor to generate power, and two, you may be totally messing up the airodynamic factors of the vehicle by that decreasing fuel efficiency even more.

 

don't believe me? go down the road, open up your window, and stick out your hand, palm paralell to the ground.... this is the car body moving through the air at whatever speed you are going at. Now lets increase your hand's aerodynamic drag coefficient, by having to come up with a way to mount a turbine on the car. For you its simple, turn your palm till its perpendicular to the ground. Notice more resistance back? In a car, the motor has to fight that, the more resistance, the less efficient the vehicle...

 

Finally to wind mills. They are a stationary object positioned in places where air temp differences move large mass of gases, more or less, constantly. The pitch on the blade alows the air to flow around the blade in such a way that it constantly creates a low pressure terminal on the back side of the blade thus spinning the prop one way. What you dont see/feel is that there is energy that gets exerted on the wind mill, but because they are teathered to the ground, the construction of the structure pipes that pressure caused by wind and not used for spinning the blades, into the ground (which is obviously heavier and thus is less likely to move with that tiny amount of push....)

 

 

I'm tired, later

[Moontanman]

Don't forget that turning a magnet inside a coil of wire to generate electricity also generates friction with the magnetic field. If you don't believe this try turning a generator by hand.

[GAHD]

Essentially your best bet for a setup like you describe is to have electric motors in 2 wheels, and a standard drivetrain in the others. you brake with and accelerate using the electric motirs to extend in city driving, otherwise the system has no advantage over a pure EV or Pure gasoline vehicle.

 

mind-you, for in city driving that's quite the savings.

 

Some EV links:

EVA/DC - Build an EV cronicles of how-to

Motor*Magnets*::*Emovendo... some assembly required

http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~elec201/Book/basic_elec.html - Wire it

PML Flightlink - Hi-Pa drive™ - Plug & play

 

That's why wind power generators work, right? You don't know what you are talking about we sent people to the moon.

Here you're best off not trying to take advantage of idleing energy from neutral, but rather to just have the motor direct drive a generator for periods of time. That lets you keep the Gas engine running at peak rpm efficiency at all times, and with a pure electric drivetrain you wouldn't have to start the engine too often for in-city driving..

[alexander]

Don't forget that turning a magnet inside a coil of wire to generate electricity also generates friction with the magnetic field. If you don't believe this try turning a generator by hand.

oh yeah, totally, even with magnetic bearings it's still pretty hard to do...

 

but rather to just have the motor direct drive a generator for periods of time.

Yes, i would say so too, and direct drive electric motor is a lot more efficient then driving the car off the gas/diesel engine, increasing total efficiency :phones: .

[ryan2006]

First of all I'm sorry I insulted. Second, what is a direct drive? Can't a DC motor be applied to the mechanisms of the axls? So when the wheels turn it is creating heat/electricity like a wind generator? Also, can aerodynamics of the material include some kind of wind pore so that when the automobile faces wind it turns that into energy?