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On the issue of belief!


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#18 nutronjon

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 09:23 AM

I don't know, nutron. :confused:

What is your point? And what does it have to do with what I said?


You said

I think beliefs are ultimately formed of choice, but are generally positioned around, or linked with, the foundation of beliefs that are instilled in young children by their parents and other influential figures.


There is a high tolerance of belief in aliens in these forums, and I don't think it came from parents, but I could be wrong. My step father was sure he experienced something caused by a UFO, so in my family there was tolerance in believing in UFO's. But I thought my family was rather different, not common.

Idsoftwaresteve, thanks that is what I was getting at. And we have more politically important beliefs as well, like should women work, should the races mix, do Muslims threaten us? Today's beliefs are different from past beliefs so we can explore how do people come to what they believe. And regarding God, and the founding of the US, will Thomas Jefferson's concept of the Laws and Nature and Nature's God and science, finally come together?

Idsoftwaresteve, I really like your last comment

But now, after reading the preview, I notice that you say, 'imposed on humanity'. Who done the imposing? Nature? Evolution? I'm going with nature



#19 Overdog

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 11:08 AM

...so we can explore how do people come to what they believe.


Here are a couple of links that offer the constructivist philosophical perspective of how we come to believe and know things....

Society for Constructivism in the Human Sciences - What is Constructivism and Why is it Growing?

Constructivism

#20 modest

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 02:30 PM

i'm guessing here. Because beliefs change over generations. My parents didn't even think about aliens. They were more interested in not being eaten by dinosaurs.


Besides the point, but my Dad actually was a UFO hunter for a short time in the early to mid 70's. Neither of my parents (as far as I know) were ever "interested in not being eaten by dinosaurs" any more than we all would rather prefer not to be so eaten.

~modest

#21 ldsoftwaresteve

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 02:37 PM

Besides the point, but my Dad actually was a UFO hunter for a short time in the early to mid 70's. Neither of my parents (as far as I know) were ever "interested in not being eaten by dinosaurs" any more than we all would rather prefer not to be so eaten.


lol. I was referring to how old I am. :)

#22 Overdog

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 02:40 PM

Besides the point, but my Dad actually was a UFO hunter for a short time in the early to mid 70's. Neither of my parents (as far as I know) were ever "interested in not being eaten by dinosaurs" any more than we all would rather prefer not to be so eaten.

~modest


Well, in my family, we were actually interested in eating dinosaurs. I remember quality time spent with my Dad speculating on what they would taste like. We finally decided "Chicken".:)

#23 modest

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 02:43 PM

Well, in my family, we were actually interested in eating dinosaurs. I remember quality time spent with my Dad speculating on what they would taste like. We finally decided "Chicken".:D


A logical conclusion considering chickens are dinosaurs. :)

~modest

#24 Rade

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:06 AM

...And is a God we do and can know, a belief or a faith or something else?...

As I see it, a God you do and can know is (1) a faith if you hold that the knowledge is 'certain' and (2) a belief if you hold that the knowledge is 'uncertain'. So, which is it for you and why ?

#25 Thunderbird

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:13 AM

As I see it, a God you do and can know is (1) a faith if you hold that the knowledge is 'certain' and (2) a belief if you hold that the knowledge is 'uncertain'. So, which is it for you and why ?

:shrug:Nutronjon is suspended.

#26 modest

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 04:41 PM

:shrug:Nutronjon is suspended.


permanently :agree:

~modest

#27 Turtle

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 05:11 PM

Belief is the single most devastating concept ever imposed upon humanity.
Have fun—Dick


:) Belief is the single most uplifting concept ever evolved in humans. :agree: I believe that you believe that you know what you're talking about, however I believe none of us fully knows what we're talking about, ergo... :hihi:

"Many people quite simply just want to believe," said Brian Cronk, a professor of psychology at Missouri Western State University. "The human brain is always trying to determine why things happen, and when the reason is not clear, we tend to make up some pretty bizarre explanations." ...

Supernatural science: Why we want to believe - LiveScience - MSNBC.com

#28 DanGray

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 08:27 AM

Belief is the single most devastating concept ever imposed upon humanity. There is no requirement for belief with regard to any concept of reality. The only requirement of any explanation of any kind is that it be consistent with what is known: i.e.., it produces no expectations counter to what has been experienced. Belief serves no purpose beyond presenting a prediction beyond what is actually expected. So long as prediction is consistent with expectations, there is no necessity of belief whatsoever. In actual fact, belief is in direct opposition to recognition of a competent represention of reality.

If you seriously disagree with my assessment with the circumstance please comment on this post. I would be seriously interested in your complaints.

Have fun—Dick

NO requirement ? sure there is..
I can only say if you have not read the Bible in depth you'll never know why or if it's so in the first place. .. for the right ansers you need to go to the right place for it . it's been there for centurys to read by anyone of their own free will ..

#29 C1ay

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:32 AM

NO requirement ? sure there is..
I can only say if you have not read the Bible in depth you'll never know why or if it's so in the first place. .. for the right ansers you need to go to the right place for it . it's been there for centurys to read by anyone of their own free will ..


OK, now that you've shared your opinion, can you actually support it as fact?

#30 DanGray

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 10:10 AM

OK, now that you've shared your opinion, can you actually support it as fact?


lets go for = facts
as = at least as you might have on the contrary of the information,,
the Bible,,, I can't argue it..
it was written in full from many differant times in history
by many, but still nothing in it is contradictory to itself, given the time span, man is not capable of doing such a thing. everything else for non believers are contradictory,speculation and theory ..what else can I say? :)

#31 freeztar

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 11:49 AM

lets go for = facts
as = at least as you might have on the contrary of the information,,
the Bible,,, I can't argue it..
it was written in full from many differant times in history
by many, but still nothing in it is contradictory to itself, given the time span, man is not capable of doing such a thing. everything else for non believers are contradictory,speculation and theory ..what else can I say? :)


I didn't understand this post at all. Can you rephrase this in a more clear way?

#32 C1ay

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 02:33 PM

the Bible,,, I can't argue it..
it was written in full from many differant times in history
by many, but still nothing in it is contradictory to itself....


I know you can't support that claim....

#33 DanGray

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 02:59 PM

I didn't understand this post at all. Can you rephrase this in a more clear way?


in what way? the = signs may have confused you sorry I should not have put = in the place of equal maybe ? if thats it sorry.

#34 Zythryn

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 03:35 PM

... but still nothing in it is contradictory to itself, given the time span, man is not capable of doing such a thing.


Dan, I am going to rephrase this, please let me know if my understanding of what you are saying is correct:

'but still nothing in it [the bible] is contradicting any part of the bible, considering the time span [the bible was written over], man is not capable of writing such a work of literature that does not contradict itself in some way.'

Is that basically correct?
If not, ignore the following...

According to Genesis 1, man was created and then beast after.
According to Genesis 2, beasts were created before man.

To me, this seems to be a contradiction:shrug: