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Theorys on the 5th dimension


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Hi!

 

It's not entirely correct to say that there are 4 "known" dimensions. Time is the "4th" dimension only when applied to space-time theories. What we actually have, are 3 spatial dimensions plus 1 time dimension.

 

In string theory (or more specifically, M-theory), there are 11 dimensions (10 spatial dimensions and one time dimension).

 

What the 5th dimension would be therefore depends on what theory you are talking about.

 

Check out our hypography on Hyperspace.

 

You should also search our website for the word dimensions, it will give you lots of relevant pages.

 

Tormod

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  • 4 months later...

Well, last I counted, there were only 5 dimensions in the universe that we could comprehend in our own minds what the difference would be. I don’t know where these other people are getting 9. I think they’re just playing with you, man.

Tormod seems to know what he’s talking about. The others, I think, are just messing with you. You see, you have the 0-dimension being a single point, the 1-dimension being a strait line (Or length, the x variable), and the 2-dimension adds width to the mix (Y variable, the graphs we generally see in algebra class). The 3-dimension gives us height, the Z variable, which is the last dimension that we, as humans, can physically see. Shapes such as Cubes are 3D, where as squares are 2D.

The fourth Dimension, Time, is where it gets tricky. We can’t really represent it by a graph all that well, to we’ve resorted to looking at it like the 1-dimension. As a Time Line. I think they use greek letter Theta to represent the variable for time, but I’m not sure. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Now, looking at time as a 1-dimensional line, we can feasibly see what effect it would have if we were to add a dimension to that, the 5-dimension. Adding a second dimension adds the ability to branch off the time line and expand into, say, alternate universes and such, if you’re into Sci-fi novels and stuff like that.

The best I can explain this as is that if the 4-dimension were Fate, the 5-dimension would be chance, or the ability to go against fate. Sorry if this doesn’t help you any, but this is just what I came up with on my own. If there’s anyone who can correct me, I would love to hear it.

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Squiggy - welcome to our forums.

 

The problem lies in the fact that time is the 4th dimension only in the 4D space-time which we perceive (3 spatial dimension plus 1 time dimension).

 

When we talk about more"spatial" dimensions, time is _not_ considered a dimension. So when you take a cube and expand it into the 4th dimension, it is not expanded into time but into an (for us)unseen dimension. That is why these extra dimensions are called "mathematical" or even "hypothetical". However, they are useful in string theory and in mathematics.

 

So time is _not_ the 4th dimension.

 

Check out our hypography on hyperspace at

http://www.hypography.com/topics/hyperspace.cfm

 

Tormod

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the link on hyperspace.

 

it really has clear up my mind on how to picture the forth dimension on a three dimension person point of view.

 

It sound a lot better than the 4th and 5th dimension theory base on fate and chance, which lack proof and sounds more like dreamers' talk.

 

My Question comes, in film, they used to describe hyperspace as a travel medium. Which is completely differnt to WORM hole, since its just Universe becomes so dense it fold it self up.

 

The way I picture travel in hyper space, is like the way I try to picture

a point in a piece of paper. If the point is move across to the next piece of paper.

It will travel next to no distant to get there. Yet where it gets back into its original piece of paper. It is not going to travel further or to a different point.

 

Also, travel in hyper space still runs under time theory...ie. if the point want to move to a paper that is 10 piece away. It's stil need to travel that distance. This distance takes time in the third dimensional space. Just like it'll take time to travel in forth dimensional space.

 

So, I really don't think travel in hyperspace is going to reduce travel distance.

 

There comes another problem on WORM hole technology. Which makes it less possible.

If the black hole is so dense that it folds up the three dimensional space.

But, wouldn't the black hole be so dense that it will attract object from three dimension first.

 

A worm hole in three dimensional space becomes more a joint point of multiple three dimensional space. Which is where a point can travel through different layers of paper instant I mention before...

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Welcome, little ray!

 

We have discussed wormholes and hyperspace travel before in these forums, you might want to look around for it.

 

I usually use a simple analogy, which reduces 3D space to 2D (it usually helps to take away a dimension to simplify stuff): Imagine not several sheets of paper, but one single sheet. With a pencil, draw a point near the bottom of the page (label it "A"), and another at the top of the page (label it "B"). Now imagine these are two points in space. A spaceship travelling from A to B in "normal" space-time must cross the paper.

 

Now fold the paper, so that A and B are on each side of the folded paper, but exactly opposite each other. Punch a hole in the paper with your pencil. This is a wormhole. By travelling through it, you can move from A to B without any passage of time, and without having to traverse the vast amount of space between the points. It is equally simple to move from A to B as it is to go from B to A.

 

I'm not saying this is _doable_ - but it is a neat way to understand how wormholes connect two points in space which are seemingly very far from each other.

 

As for how to travel in hyperspace, I'll let that rest for now (it is past midnight for me over here in Norway).

 

All the best,

Tormod

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I still don't like the concept of a folderable three dimensional space.

 

if a three dimensional space that can be curved so much that it fold itself together. Lets said a piece of paper folded itself. The piece of paper thinken. If this happen, this mean there are two 2D spatial space joints together, which makes it 3D.

 

For 3D spatial, this mean that it will create a 4D spatial area as a meeting point of the same 3D spatial plane.

 

 

But, it has a less possiblity for our flat universe to fold itself than having dense object from our universe that pull another object from a different plane of 3D spatial, so it becomes a joint of 2 different 3D spatial.

 

I mean that is all those talk of dark matter that creates extra weight of Universe and curve of the universe. Wouldn't it be more likely that those affect be created by "near by" (4D sense) 3D spatial object.

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  • 3 weeks later...

@littleray,

 

What do you mean, you don't like 3D space being foldable? It obviously is foldable...but energy is required to fold it.

 

The 2D sheet of paper never folds itself, it is being folded by something (for example, by me).

 

3D space is folded in the same way. Usually the term "curved" is more commen. Observe, for example, how light is bent as it passes close to a star - because gravity forces it to change course.

 

I don't think this is a matter of liking it or not...

 

Tormod

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People talk of what they see with their minds in relation to space and time being the five dimensions, is the mind itself not another dimension? We cant see it yet we know its there, never being governed by any other dimension ITS ALL JUST AN ILLUSION

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I understand that there is a chance for 3D space being folded due to gravity pull.

 

Yet, if the gravity pull and energy is so great, shouldn't it pull the closest thing to it. Which is object that is right next to it in the forth dimension.

 

Unless you are saying that there are no interaction between different planes of 3D planes. (Is there interaction between different instance 3rd Dimension plane? The interaction beween 3rd dimension plane...doesn't that make each interaction a 4D event. Just like Multiple instance 2D plane interacte with each, the point of interaction or alignment usually becomes 3D.

 

There were new research finding on Universe being folded.

I mean since, the Universe we know now is 3D and we assumes it to be folded...Shouldn't that makes a 4D universe. Then...again when we picture the Folded Universe...we were suppose to picture as a flat universe....

 

If lets a say the flat universe is so flat, when compare to the rest of "none universe", It almost becomes an instance of 2D plane. Once this 2D plane folded itself, it comes a 3D sphere...This just basically saying the Universe is round and sphere. yet It's orgine of Big Bang is on the space of the 2D flat Universe and expand out ward to form a flat Universe, which folded itself and form a joint instance of Flat universe....which is an 4D universe....

 

So, We lives in a 3D universe, which there is an instant of 4D plane somewhere, when the 3D flat univese curves up.

 

 

I really think Dimension theory should be really 1+1=2 and shouldn't apply to real Universe Visual projection.

 

I am real confuse now.

 

Anyone who can help me to picture a 3D Universe curve up, please. It will really ease my painful little head.

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@iamno

 

The problem with mind as dimension is not yet in a very good way of being represented in maths notation.

 

I mean in maths you can declare absoulte emptiness....somehow...

 

In your mind, you can not. In the mind, it needs to picture either an instance of content, or instance of the content's container. Or both.

 

I think that's why the mind is mention in the Physics and Mathematics forum here, where we talk about dimension.

 

ermm...I think...:

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