# What Americans, USAans, yanks, beleive.

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### #154 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:50 PM

He is coming to visit Oz next month (and his old stomping grounds Indonesia).
What should we show him?

????? Who?

### #155 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 09:04 PM

We lost that when we lost our jobs and our pay.

Not an excuse:naughty:

Most jobs that have bailed were lost because their employees priced themselves out of the picture or were too lazy for the wages they received.

BTW. Anti-Union and proud of it. After watching them strangle GE Erie nearly to death and successfully kill off several other large firms including Crescent Tool, Erie division which spent the last five years of it's life using loans to pay employees and they still went on strike trying to get higher wages!!!!!

If everybody paid what they could instead of trying to dodge their responsibilities things would look at least a little less screwed up.

Seriously right now there are people getting or waiting for tax "REFUND" checks for a lot more than they paid into the system...in some cases thousands of dollars more...it's not right.

### #156 Dd'sEvilTwin

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 09:27 PM

Embarrassingly Stupid Americans -- One in Five Believes Sun Revolves Around Earth

stupidThe title of this article, that an embarrassingly high number of Americans believe that the sun revolves around the Earth, is only one point argued by the Washington Post’s Susan Jacoby, in her attempt to prove that Americans are in serious intellectual trouble, facing a virulent mixture of anti-intellectualism, anti-rationalism and low expectations.

What else is signaling that Americans are becoming increasingly dumbed-down as a society?

* Reading -- of books, newspapers and magazines -- is on the decline. A 2007 study even found that 80 percent of American families did not buy or read a book in 2006.

Embarrassingly Stupid Americans -- One in Five Believes Sun Revolves Around Earth - Articles

Still no hope nor sign of any sort of any improvement:eek:
In fact I fear that the decline is accelerating:eek:
I wonder how much it would cost to defect to Canada.

### #157 Buffy

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:10 AM

Most jobs that have bailed were lost because their employees priced themselves out of the picture or were too lazy for the wages they received.

Ah, evil unions. Well ya know this is what GE Erie might have looked like if it hadn't been for those damned unions:

That's you DD, in the lower left corner....

Seriously right now there are people getting or waiting for tax "REFUND" checks for a lot more than they paid into the system...in some cases thousands of dollars more...it's not right.

Man you *are* a fundy, huh? Yep those damned *money changers* will go to hell for charging interest! Bible says so!

If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest,
Buffy

### #158 maikeru

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 02:45 AM

Not an excuse:naughty:

Most jobs that have bailed were lost because their employees priced themselves out of the picture or were too lazy for the wages they received.

BTW. Anti-Union and proud of it. After watching them strangle GE Erie nearly to death and successfully kill off several other large firms including Crescent Tool, Erie division which spent the last five years of it's life using loans to pay employees and they still went on strike trying to get higher wages!!!!!

If everybody paid what they could instead of trying to dodge their responsibilities things would look at least a little less screwed up.

Seriously right now there are people getting or waiting for tax "REFUND" checks for a lot more than they paid into the system...in some cases thousands of dollars more...it's not right.

DD, there are a number of reasons for why jobs were lost. I have friends who were construction workers, programmers, business people, etc. who lost their jobs and have no immediate prospects. I don't think that all unions are evil nor all unions are good. They have their place. There are bad unions and there are bad workers and there are good workers. I just hired a new employee, though we're in the recession, and she's been great to work with. I would prefer that individual employees and employers could negotiate and settle their grievances, and that there were better ways to do things. It's clear that outsourcing jobs, keeping all of our old jobs, creating unneeded jobs (like many of those that happened to be in home construction and related ones), etc. will not address all the questions and problems. I'm not sure. We're in difficult times. The manufacturing center of the world is no longer the US, but China. Likewise, we appear to be losing our place as the technology and scientific leader of the world. I'm not sure what we can clearly lead in except incredible and inedible national debt. And American know-how and gumption which we once prided ourselves on now seems a faint memory as people miss their designer clothes, extra home or boat, or just having enough food to eat and a safe, warm place to sleep. Every story's different for every person who lost a job.

What's clear and certain is that a lot of Americans made bad choices, and that the country has been led down a path we created and now "enjoy." Let's hope that things get better. Things like Peak Oil and other resource and mineral limitations are dark clouds on my mind in times like these. Making bad times possibly worse.

### #159 REASON

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 02:47 AM

Not an excuse:naughty:

Most jobs that have bailed were lost because their employees priced themselves out of the picture or were too lazy for the wages they received.....

.....If everybody paid what they could instead of trying to dodge their responsibilities things would look at least a little less screwed up.

I'm sure the staggering rate of disparity between the compensation of average workers and corporate CEOs can't be part of the problem.

U.S.: Pay Gap Widens Between CEOs and Workers

The United States long has had the industrialized world's largest gap in pay between chief executives and blue-collar workers. CEO compensation swelled from 85 times what workers earned in 1990, to 209 times in 1996, and 326 times the following year. In 1999, CEO pay surged to a record 419 times the average worker's wage, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

419 times the average workers wage more than a decade ago. And this article was written back in 2005. Let's consider where the real wealth redistribution is taking place. Meanwhile, they continue to use the excess money to lobby congress to reduce their tax liability. The Bush tax cuts reduced the top tax bracket to the lowest in history under the notion that it would stimulate job growth. Thanks to outsourcing, the aughts showed 0% private sector job growth despite the tax break, and executive compensation and bonuses have continued to swell at the rate of WTF. Then we bail out their unregulated Wall Street casino gambling habits to the tune of $800 billion. Yet we Yanks watch FOX Noise and then keep arguing that the poor are the problem. Thank you, Sir. May I have another?..........Gimme a break! ### #160 DFINITLYDISTRUBD DFINITLYDISTRUBD tsilcycrotom live • Members • 2291 posts Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:56 PM Buffy- Man you *are* a fundy, huh? Yep those damned *money changers* will go to hell for charging interest! Bible says so! If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest, Buffy I'll assume from this you are one of those that pay little in,but have produced a little burden or two for the system, and feel you should be compensated for it by the American taxpayer that has no little tax "writeoffs" runnin round. WTF does the bible have to do with my hard earned money ending up in other people's undeserving pockets? If you utilize the services our Govt provides then you should pay your share....And if you can't pay it you sure as hell shouldn't get more back. AND BTW if your going to make references to/from the bible you might try reading it first:naughty: Buffy- Ah, evil unions. Well ya know this is what GE Erie might have looked like if it hadn't been for those damned unions: It's funny how the unions always get the credit for things like that....not the lawmakers or the voters. Their supposed contributions to supposedly better work environments are far outweighed by their greed. and yes he does look a bit like me. REASON- Yet we Yanks watch FOX Noise and then keep arguing that the poor are the problem. I AM poorish and thoroughly blaming those that got greedy at all levels for the current state of things...and all levels includes labor....each hike in labor costs leads to increased costs to consumers which leads to a demand for higher wages which leads to more cost to consumers which leads to etc.etc. and Unions have been really good at leveraging those higher wages so good that many are now looking for work and or losing their homes etc. etc. None of this of course was helped by the$2 minimum wage hike which paired with a dramatic increase of fuel costs did a beauty job of taking the lower middle class and slamming them to just above impoverished while slamming those earning minimum wage and those on fixed incomes even harder. End result the current state of the american economy.

I'm sure the staggering rate of disparity between the compensation of average workers and corporate CEOs can't be part of the problem.

And I'm sure that this does not apply to every corporation...or for that matter a large number of them.

### #161 Buffy

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:43 PM

I'll assume from this you are one of those that pay little in,but have produced a little burden or two for the system, and feel you should be compensated for it by the American taxpayer that has no little tax "writeoffs" runnin round.

No, no way that it could be explained by actually being true. It's gotta be that I think this because I'm rippin' off tha system...

No, I've made 6 figures most of my life, and paid through the nose in taxes, especially since we had to liquidate the house in the divorce.

In other words, I'm one of those few who do indeed pay far more than my fair share, but also one of the few who realize that there are significant societal benefits to paying all those folks who "don't deserve it."

WTF does the bible have to do with my hard earned money ending up in other people's undeserving pockets?

Actually your original remark was about tax refunds, which means they actually did pay, that's why it's called a "refund." What you seemed to be also implying was folks who are getting paid social security which is "far in excess of what they paid in" although that's not really true if you consider the *interest* that's implied by the way that social security works...

If you utilize the services our Govt provides then you should pay your share....And if you can't pay it you sure as hell shouldn't get more back.

Which is a great way to say, government has no role to play in the social welfare of the country: can't pay your way, you should just go die in the gutter. And we'll go after your relatives for the cost of sweeping your body off the streets.

AND BTW if your going to make references to/from the bible you might try reading it first:naughty:

And why do you assume that I haven't?

It's funny how the unions always get the credit for things like that....not the lawmakers or the voters.

Well, it's because of the order of occurrence. The labor laws were not passed until we had a good 50 years of unions organizing, striking, rioting and finally making enough of a nuisance of themselves that the majority of voters and lawmakers saw that it really was a good idea *for everyone*...

Of course, for folks that want to see unions completely evil and corporations universally virtuous, facts don't matter.

Their supposed contributions to supposedly better work environments are far outweighed by their greed.

Greed? What greed? Who's making any real money? Sure, certain unions got some sweet deals--auto workers are a good example--but even they got no further than middle class, and in fact there's a strong argument that the middle class would never have *existed* if it were not for unions: you in fact do not see any middle class except in countries where unions have been strong.

...each hike in labor costs leads to increased costs to consumers which leads to a demand for higher wages which leads to more cost to consumers which leads to etc.etc.

So for the last 20 years unions have been in decline, with most manufacturing moving off shore where it's much cheaper. Are you paying less for those washing machines, cars, stereos and other things where virtually all of the profit now goes to foreigners?

Unions have been really good at leveraging those higher wages so good that many are now looking for work and or losing their homes etc. etc.

Yep. And all because the corporations got "greedy" first and started just eliminating the jobs. But if you look at labor negotiations over the period that this spate of off-shoring has been going on, you'd see that unions have been giving up benefits hand over fist simply to keep some jobs here--agreements that the corporations have been figuring out how to renege on in every way they can.

None of this of course was helped by the \$2 minimum wage hike which paired with a dramatic increase of fuel costs did a beauty job of taking the lower middle class and slamming them to just above impoverished while slamming those earning minimum wage and those on fixed incomes even harder. End result the current state of the american economy.

It's beyond comprehension to see how the entire "state of the american economy" can be blamed on a hike in the minimum wage and oil prices. Do you have any idea how few people actually make the minimum wage?

Union membership has dropped dramatically, and because of the loss of power (I guess that's what they're "greedy" for since it sure ain't money), strikes are becoming unheard of:

(Source: Dollars and Sense

And the result has been increasing disparity in income:

(Source: Dollars and Sense

...and note that this graph is unadjusted for inflation, and that bottom 20% has in real terms seen their income drop.

Who is getting the money? I can assure you it ain't the union members.

Seriously dude, Faux News is worse for your brain than Owsley tabs....

And I'm sure that this does not apply to every corporation...or for that matter a large number of them.

Well not *every* corporation, only about 95%. Take my word for it: I know the folks who run them. If it doesn't affect both this quarter's bottom line and the bonus in their employment contract, it just doesn't get done....

One of the serious obstacles to the improvement of our race is indiscriminate charity,
Buffy

### #162 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:30 PM

Buffy- In other words, I'm one of those few who do indeed pay far more than my fair share, but also one of the few who realize that there are significant societal benefits to paying all those folks who "don't deserve it."

Your free to believe that if you wish...personally I view it as robbery.

Actually your original remark was about tax refunds, which means they actually did pay, that's why it's called a "refund." What you seemed to be also implying was folks who are getting paid social security which is "far in excess of what they paid in" although that's not really true if you consider the *interest* that's implied by the way that social security works...

that's what people call em
and it ceases to merely be a refund when more is given than paid.

As to Social Security...as far as retirement is concerned ....when are the pension crown going to pay on some of these bills they ran up while playing chicken with the Soviets.? It's funny how I get the bills they get the benefits...and of course want more...and now of course I also get to inherit the debts run up by my fathers generation as well.....seems to me they got a few bills to pay up before they start asking for money and benefits. And What interest???!? Interest implies monies were invested, not spent.

Which is a great way to say, government has no role to play in the social welfare of the country: can't pay your way, you should just go die in the gutter. And we'll go after your relatives for the cost of sweeping your body off the streets.

No it's a great way of saying "I'm already paying for your kids education, feeding you and providing for a roof over your head. Please be grateful and kindly leave some of my hard earned monies for my family."

And why do you assume that I haven't?

mostly a two step quicky google leading directly to word for word. But in fairness I'll admit I was too quick to judge basing only on that....and for that I apologize. Wasn't helped by you calling me a fundamentalist (which I take great offense at. they want to and have succeeded in ruining most of my fun and are the most eager to dig deeply into my pockets for every bleeding heart cause and worse are anti-abortion, anti-drugs, well they're evil) but the apology still stands.

As to the rest of it I believe you to be generalizing and have to do some homework before I attempt to dig any more in that hole....and yes I realize my beliefs about unions are generalized too based on my experiences here...

Buffy-
No, I've made 6 figures most of my life, and paid through the nose in taxes,

Wow...six figures... I'll make that in a half a decade or so...with me Mrs. in a quarter of a decade or so with both of us putting in a minimum of 50 hours a week.

### #163 Michaelangelica

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 02:31 AM

There is a similar series to this on Canadian TV

YouTube - The Chasers War on Everything-American Muslims=Nazi Germany?

YouTube- Americans are NOT stupid - WITH SUBTITLES

This was pretty scary too, considering so many have fought and died in OS wars because of it.
YouTube- The Chaser's WOE: 9/11 Poll, S2 E41