Fishteacher73 Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I think you brought up this idea on another thread, Irish, that in some cases that CP may actually escalate the crime. Rape can be classified as a capital crime in TX (Maybe other states too, I'm not sure). The insentive is to murder the victim/witness because that does not increase the stakes on the punishment level, but helps the criminal avoid prosecution. The problem with this logic is simply put is that it is logic. I don't think the mind of a murdering rapist operates at the same level of logic, so this argument may be invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I don't think the mind of a murdering rapist operates at the same level of logic, so this argument may be invalid.You mean the BRAIN of a murdering rapist, right? And would this be a person that would spend the rest of his life in prison, or could this type of person somehow be 'rehabilitated'? And would you encourage your daughter to date him?I guess I just don't understand why keeping criminals of violent crimes in jail for their entire lives is more ethical or moral than putting them to death. Is it *only* the fear of exectuting an innocent person? So if the person was caught on film in the act of a very violent crime, and there was no chance that the person was innocent, would CP then be ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 No, I don't think that we ever have the right to murder in cold blood, self-defense is different, as is a fight in which both sides are attempting to kill each other and understand that either may die, as in war. Keeping criminals alive is more ethical because it allows them to live their life without harming anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Keeping criminals alive is more ethical because it allows them to live their life without harming anybody.HOW is this 'more ethical'? "More ethical' than what, a controlled execution? Swift and harsh punishment may not be fashionable, but many of the countries that exercise this option have relatively low violent crimes, in relation to their population, don't they? I can't seem to find stats on typical murder rates in China and Iran, as they seem to be the two other 'main' CP countries, but I'm going to keep looking. I think the US may be the exception to the rule in this instance, possibly for the reason mentioned by drak... punishment takes soooo long, that it's not seen as an effective deterrant. Is it really more humane/moral/ethical to keep people in prison for their entire lives for a crime? Or should they be rehabilitated and returned to society? And who gets to decide which crimes are 'bad enough' for life in prison versus rehabilitation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Other questions...If a person receives 'life' in prison, should they ever be eligible for parole? What should the typical 'life' in prison be like? 3 squares, single room, cable tv, library? Is this really considered a punishment? I know people who would LOVE to have the amenities that are often afforded most criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I believe the general rule of thumb for life imprisonment is eligability for parole after 50 or 60 years. This is why many times criminals will recieve multiple life sentences. Eligabilty and being granted are also very distinct options. Good ol' Manson comes up for parole every now and again but is/has not recieved it. It is hard to argue that killing someone is wrong if you(more precisely the state) is/are directly and intentionally killing someone. This may be countered by the idea that then a country should not go to war. I feel that the argument stands. The point is to remove a threat, this can be done without perpetuating death. In terms of self-defence, I personally can not see a situation that MANDATES that you take another life. There are a plethora of means to remove the threat w/o terminating a life. (This is in terms of both personally as well as in terms of a national entity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I feel that part of the problem with the US prison system is that it is neither a fully functional rehabilitaion device nor a punishment device. It sort of straddles the two concepts and really is not effective at either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakon1323 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I can definitely understand the mentality of not wanting to take the life of another but i cannot say i agree with anyone that says that yet will eat a steak. and i dont think anyone can give a good reason otherwise.thats where i stand on the morals of the issue. second thought, there are many people that intentionally commit crimes because life in prison is better than the life they have on the street. how is that rehabilitating? ps. no im not a vegetarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I think that we have to look a killing a human as a societal issue, where as eating a steak is a biological issue. The sheer act of breathing kill thousands of microbes. I can not see anyone that is yelling for banning of respiration. The taking of a human life I think falls into a seperate category because there is no biological imperitive to terminate someon else (Unless you want to argue about competition for essential resources, but in today's society that is typically not an issue and almost certainly not in US society). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakon1323 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 but thats the whole point.its society not nature. im not saying its right or wrong.... im just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 im not saying its right or wrong.... im just saying. That's got to be in the newsletter next month as one of my favorite quotes... How perfectly true is that?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakon1323 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 These are the same people who will buy a bunnie around easter because its cute and throw it into the woods or the side of a highway when theyre tired of it.a domestic bunny wont survive in the wild. i rescued 1 thrown from a moving van on the highway. it was a mess. fractured back, etc.hes better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 These are the same people I'm sorry, I don't understand "who" you mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakon1323 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Society. not everyone, but on a whole, weve become misguided. It seems like people dont think anymore. I think its the stress of living in the northeast thats getting to me. i appologize 4 being so negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I think revenge is not a justification for murder. A t-bone...yeah... :) Don't get me started on many of the consumers in the pet industry...(I despise PETA so don't go there). I managed a shop for while. I think people just assume that they really do not have to care for an animal that they began with. It was almost a daily amazed response from someone, "You mean you have to feed the fish?!?!?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 i appologize 4 being so negative.Please...don't. Don't apologize for feeling the way that you feel. I agree that it seems people have become misguided, but many people think that we *are* starting to think more. So I'm not really sure what the answer is. I feel like I've been saying that a whole lot recently. "I'm not sure of the answer" seems to be my refrain, which is a far cry from where I started at this site, huh Tormod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I think revenge is not a justification for murder. A t-bone...yeah... :) Don't get me started on many of the consumers in the pet industry...(I despise PETA so don't go there). I managed a shop for while. I think people just assume that they really do not have to care for an animal that they began with. It was almost a daily amazed response from someone, "You mean you have to feed the fish?!?!?" I'm starting a new topic on this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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