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Does capital punishment reduce crime?


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#1 Fishteacher73

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:23 PM

This is a bleed over(forgive the bad pun) from the zero-tolerance thread.

1) Does capital punishment reduce crime?

2) Is captital punishment moral?


#2 IrishEyes

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:47 PM

Thanks for bringing this here, this one should get fun...

1) maybe
2) it depends on an individual's definition of morality

#3 Stargazer

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:48 PM

This is a bleed over(forgive the bad pun) from the zero-tolerance thread.

1) Does capital punishment reduce crime?

I'm not sure that it does. Do you have any good sources with statistics?

2) Is captital punishment moral?

I think it's wrong and does not have a place in a civilised society. I think it's more of a revenge type of punishment... if it can be called punishment at all. Certainly there's no punishment in being dead. I would suspect that the real punishment is the time the sentenced criminal is waiting to be executed. Even if this experience, for some reason, would actually turn this criminal into a better person, it's obviously lost and wasted as soon as he's executed.

#4 sanctus

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:51 PM

1)No, because if you do something that you know that if you get caught you get capital punishment, you care less anyway. This implies, that it reduces crime, as those who don't care less won't do it; still against for answer to point 2)

2) On which moral?If I talk about my conception of morality no, simply because how can we be 100% sure the person really committed the crime? How can we judge if a crime does need a capital punishment or not? and mainly why do we never consider to look in the past of a person to understand why somebody did it, try to help him/her out of the situation by other means?

#5 Fishteacher73

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:53 PM

I have seen a number a sources that say that CP is not a deterrent. I don't have any handy, but can speak to a friend of mine (Hesd of the local Amnesty International group that is a lawyer that is active fighting the US's stance on CP. He should have plenty.)

I can find no moral concept that is not theologically based (and contadicted in the same source..eye for an eye, thou shall not kill, etc.). If one feels murder is wrong, one by default I feel should be opposed to the sanction murder of someone else.

#6 Fishteacher73

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:55 PM

Much less to get into the ability to decide guilt...

#7 mother engine

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 04:41 PM

try looking at statistics concerning the reported crime rate in states with a death penality and in states without comparing cultural mores and the number of people in each place. i am not sure that comparisons between countries would be as trust worthy because of the higher level in cultural differences. personally i think killing prisoners has more to do with the level of violence in well thought out crimes as opposed to street crime and family murders. the only moral aspect i see stems from the idea of justice which i have personal distain for but which may serve a purpose socially speaking.

#8 zadojla

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:10 AM

1) No.

2)Yes, if and only if guilt of a crime of appropriate seriousness is fairly established. (And not like 18th C. England, where you could be hanged for stealing a shilling.)

#9 Aki

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:49 AM

You know what we have here in Canada? People who have attempted murder can get away without going to jail. They only have to stay home, and basically they can do whatever they want. I think that's just pathetic.

#10 Yvonne

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 01:01 AM

This is a bleed over(forgive the bad pun) from the zero-tolerance thread.

1) Does capital punishment reduce crime?

2) Is captital punishment moral?


1: No! Capital punishment does not reduce crime.

People in the States have not stopped commiting crime, I would say just the opposite. Preventive action is so much better, and so much cheaper in the long run.

2: No! One innocent person excecuted is one two many.

My arguments are that as long as there is a even a question about wheter race and money plays a part in if the offender get capital punishment and people can give false evidence and testimoney something as drastic as take someones life is out of the question. I don't remember the case, but in the States there was a woman working with DNA giving false evidence and thereby sending innocent people to jail and the electric chair.

Also it will never give the offender a chance to better him or herself and be a productive member of socienty. It's a human right to be allowed to right your mistakes.

I sometimes thinks people in Norway get low sentences, but I rather that than the opposite.

Yvonne

#11 pgrmdave

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 06:18 AM

http://www.deathpena...cid=12&did=1176
-an article detailing the non-deterance of capital punishment

As to the morality - it doesn't matter to me whether or not they were guilty, it is not right for us to murder.

#12 IrishEyes

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:13 AM

It's a human right to be allowed to right your mistakes.

No, it's not.

One of the few differences between our points of view, eh friend?

I really don't know how I feel about capital punishment, as my views have changed drastically over the years. I said "maybe" it reduces crime, as it might give people pause before going that extra step, but that might delve too deeply into the criminal mind, and I'm not really qualified to do that.

I also don't know that it's immoral, as we are having a hard enough time defining morality ourselves. I think we've seen that morality ia a rather subjective thing, so to say that one thing is moral, and another is not is really incorrect, especially here at Hypography. Whether or not each of us thinks capital punishment is moral or not, it is a fact in some places, NOT just in the US.

People often cite the US as the prime example, but their are many other countries that deliver capital punishment besides this one. Of course, looking at the list ofcountries, I'm not sure it's a good thing to be among the ones listed... It seems a bit odd that most of the countries are ones that we do not agree with in many other areas. Who knows? I still can't get my mind around this one, I don't have a steady opinion on it, it just depends for me, I guess.

http://www.truthout....4/080904Z.shtml discusses re-instated capital punishment in Iraq, which they believe WILL reduce violent crimes

http://web.amnesty.o...nalty-facts-eng great site on death penalty from Amnesty International... shows how many countries still have the death penalty or other forms of capital punsihment, many more than I knew of...

#13 Stargazer

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:16 AM

The list of countries where they still have death penalty is interesting, and USA does stand out as one of the very few liberal democracies that still practice it. So does it work? I wonder what the guilty/innocent ratio could be.

#14 Fishteacher73

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:34 AM

I think I saw a statistic that estimated about 10% had reasonable issue against the ruling...I'll see if I can find it. It was on a site discussing Bush's run as Gov. of TX (also preiding gov. over the most executions in US history if I recall as wel).


Here is another site that states as of 2004, 117 people have been exonerated and at least 23 people have been executed that have later been found innocent of the crime.

http://www.deathpena...?did=412&scid=6

#15 Drakon1323

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:12 AM

I would think that you really couldnt tell if CP reduces crime because of the inefficiency of the system and the inconsistency of the sentence.
Under the assumption that CP should be used under extreme circumstances, like multiple planned murders or the such... think of the amount of people who've done that and the variation in sentences that they have recieved thru lawyers or plea bargan or other laws or loopholes, etc.
Theres no way it could be used as a deterrant when its so easily beat. Plus when you think of waiting time and appeals and red tape. Its a negligible thought in most peoples mind.
So i would say :
1. undetermined
and
2. depends on whos morality youre using.

#16 IrishEyes

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:19 AM

Theres no way it could be used as a deterrant when its so easily beat. Plus when you think of waiting time and appeals and red tape. Its a negligible thought in most peoples mind

Yes, that's something that I hadn't fully considered. Can it be viewed as a deterrant when there is always the possibility of a lawyer getting the person out of the sentence? As such, the punishment for the crime *might* be death, but only if the prosecution can convince a jury that death is warranted, in some states. Would this play into the thinking of a person considering a criminal act? Very interesting question...

#17 Drakon1323

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:24 AM

plus, alot of people die of old age waitin 4 the chair.