Double Positives and Double Negatives

[maddog]

One I heard often growing up in southern Indiana... (in answer to did you know something):

 

"I don't know nothing!"

You know I thought about this last night (or was it the night before)...

 

Said a different way is "I don't know no-thing" is like

"There is no-thing that this person don't know" which is like

He know Everything... !

 

maddog

[Turtle]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

:)

Though I’ve a sense of its idiomatic meaning, that’s one that’s always seemed weird to me. It means, I think “the preceding are the same thing with different names”, as does the flowerier “a rose by any other name [would smell as sweet]”, but always make me think of example like “six apples, half a dozen helicopters??”.

 

I’ve encountered an variation on “six of one, half a dozen of the other” spoken “six, one, half dozen, another”. My grandparents, many-generations Connecticuters, used this, and could only expand it back into its longer, more sensible form, with a bit of mental effort.

 

The way I see it, "six of one & half a dozen of the other" is the same meaning as "same difference", which is the meaning that the necessary outcome of the choice between some number of things is not going to differ based on that choice, and furthermore some action to an outcome is required. If you consider the "difference" a mathematical difference, then whether you say "six" or "half-a-dozen", the "difference" is still 6 (well, the absolute value of the difference. :singer: )

 

Q: "Should I paint it red or blue?"

A: "same difference", or "six of one, half a dozen of the other." [meaning the color doesn't matter as long as painting is done.]

 

:singer:

[lemit]

Reading these careful, well-reasoned analyses of "same difference" and "six of one, half dozen of the other," it occurs to me that nobody who uses those terms would be able to make sense out of those particular posts.

 

Both of those sayings are kind of linguistic Musak to most of the people who use them. If you asked them what they meant, you'd get astonished and angry stares--at least I do. Where I grew up, people never thought about language. It was something you learned as a child, like walking. To think that it conveyed cognitive thought would have been a perfect example (I almost used the word "epitome") of "highfalutin'" and the person who questioned the meaning of words would have been an "egghead" or at least "different."

 

Also, I kind of wish we had retained the Middle English practice of adding negatives for emphasis, the way we still do with positives. I can't find my Chaucer right now, but his triple or quadruple negatives are very effective.

 

Can anyone else remember some of those examples of multiple negatives from Middle English?

 

--lemit

[freeztar]

Q: "Should I paint it red or blue?"

A: "same difference", or "six of one, half a dozen of the other." [meaning the color doesn't matter as long as painting is done.]

 

:singer:

 

Well, in the first scenario, you get a painting that is either red or blue. In the second scenario, you get a painting which is half red and half blue (or purple). :singer:

In other words, they use different logical operators.

 

But yeah, colloquially they are the same in my experience.

[Turtle]

Reading these careful, well-reasoned analyses of "same difference" and "six of one, half dozen of the other," it occurs to me that nobody who uses those terms would be able to make sense out of those particular posts.

 

Pretty broad stroke there. :singer: I have used the terms interchangeably for eons, which is what prompted me to pen my well-reasoned analysis that you made sense of. On those occasions when asked, I explain. For the slowest, that explanation goes, "just do it". :D

 

Both of those sayings are kind of linguistic Musak to most of the people who use them. If you asked them what they meant, you'd get astonished and angry stares--at least I do. Where I grew up, people never thought about language. It was something you learned as a child, like walking. To think that it conveyed cognitive thought would have been a perfect example (I almost used the word "epitome") of "highfalutin'" and the person who questioned the meaning of words would have been an "egghead" or at least "different."

 

Yeah; "different"; that's me. :ud: Do you walk to work, or eat in the cafeteria?

 

Also, I kind of wish we had retained the Middle English practice of adding negatives for emphasis, the way we still do with positives. I can't find my Chaucer right now, but his triple or quadruple negatives are very effective.

 

I kinda wish folks weren't always kinda wishin' we'd go back to some this or that. How darest they. :)

 

Q: "Should I paint it red or blue?"

A: "same difference", or "six of one, half a dozen of the other." [meaning the color doesn't matter as long as painting is done.

 

Well, in the first scenario, you get a painting that is either red or blue. In the second scenario, you get a painting which is half red and half blue (or purple).

In other words, they use different logical operators.

 

Mmmmm...What is, I only gave 1 scenario for $200 Alex? :eek2: :hyper: The only logical operator is "operation", as I see it; in this case that is painting and the point of applying these sayings is to indicate color is not an attribute of "painting" that either adds or detracts from the result of painting. For example, painting to make a surface water resistant is an operation in which color may or may not matter. :Alien:

 

But yeah, colloquially they are the same in my experience.

 

Just wanted to bust my chops a bit? :hyper:

 

I logically expect nothing less of colloquialisms than to behave colloquially. So, is "same difference" a double-negative, a double-positive, a positive-negative, or a negative-positive pair? :singer:

[freeztar]

Mmmmm...What is, I only gave 1 scenario for $200 Alex? :hyper: :)

 

Fair enough, replace the word "scenario" with "answer", as in the first answer being same difference and the second answer being the other.

 

The only logical operator is "operation", as I see it; in this case that is painting and the point of applying these sayings is to indicate color is not an attribute of "painting" that either adds or detracts from the result of painting. For example, painting to make a surface water resistant is an operation in which color may or may not matter.

 

Indeed. Rereading your original statement, this makes perfect sense. I still think my extension of your metaphor is revealing, though the context in which I implemented it was obviously incorrectly wrong. :Alien:

 

Just wanted to bust my chops a bit? :hyper:

Do Turtle's have chops? :singer:

 

I logically expect nothing less of colloquialisms than to behave colloquially. So, is "same difference" a double-negative, a double-positive, a positive-negative, or a negative-positive pair? :singer:

 

I would have to go with +- pair.

Experiencing burning hot and freezing cold is the same difference. :eek2:

[lemit]

Thanks, Turtle. I got out on a couple of thin linguistic and social branches there. Thanks for the gentle tug to get me back down to earth.

 

--lemit

[mynah]

"Same difference" reminds me of a reply you often get in Thailand when two things are compared, "Same same, but different". As far as I can make out, it means, "very similar, but with a crucial difference".

[maddog]

"Same difference" reminds me of a reply you often get in Thailand when two things are compared, "Same same, but different". As far as I can make out, it means, "very similar, but with a crucial difference".

Fascinating! How does it read in Thai ?

 

maddog

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

enjoy this groovie *bump*

 

I ain't never made none groovier:)