infamous Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Okay, this debate is a potential land mine so I'll try to tread lightly. You fail to answer BOTH Sancus and myself...I was asking if it was okay to go to war in God's name. You keep talking about defending your country regardless of religion. I believe that I was keeping God out of the discussion, and I do agree that going to war in God's name should not be the issue. I believe that America came to the defense of Europe against Nazi domination for human interest, would you like to have things returned to post war conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I believe that I was keeping God out of the discussion, and I do agree that going to war in God's name should not be the issue. I have not said it should not be the issue. I said it probably would fail to become the issue. :) Sanctus started this thread, he is the one who decides if it should be brought back on topic or not. I believe that America came to the defense of Europe against Nazi domination for human interest, would you like to have things returned to post war conditions? Yes. Please. Post war conditions would be excellent. :hihi: I think I have stated above that I do not consider WWII a religious war. My simple question is, "why is it necessary for Americans to go to war in the name of God"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I should add that if my viewpoint here seems a bit single minded, it may well be so. I am a conscientious objector and as such it is obvious that my views are NOT based on having served in the army. In Norway people still talk about doing military service "for God and country", although it is more a saying these days than what it used to be. Americans are not the only ones. It is just a bit more "obvious". I just wonder why. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I have not said it should not be the issue. I said it probably would fail to become the issue. :) Sanctus started this thread, he is the one who decides if it should be brought back on topic or not. Yes. Please. Post war conditions would be excellent. :hihi: I think I have stated above that I do not consider WWII a religious war. My simple question is, "why is it necessary for Americans to go to war in the name of God"?I'll just have to speak for myself on this one Tormod. It is not necessary for America to go to war in the name of God, he is quite capable of handling that issue for himself. We will all be witness to this when Christ returns for the church, Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 It is not necessary for America to go to war in the name of God, he is quite capable of handling that issue for himself. Then why do they do it? Why claim to have God on their side? It makes even less sense when you explain it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 and there are people in uniform that die every single day to defend your right to think and say that. If we practiced humanity and exteneded it globally, then there probably would not be that dire of a threat... I respect and admire those that are willing to serve in the military and mean no affront by saying the problem with a military is that it is to opperate as a machine. Soldiers are cogs in the mechanism expected to function a specific way w/o question (up to a point, but that is a reasonably hazy line to discern what is appropriat behavior if someone is shooting at you).. This is needed for a military to function. You really would not want the break pedal in your car to hessitate in its functioning. If you use your car to mow down a group of pedestrians, yes it is the car that did the damage, but it is the driver whom is resposible for the car's actions. It is the leadership of the military (or lack there of in some cases) that must be held to task. As for the role of the clergy in the military, they are there as a support system. Many of these soldiers are young and can be deeply affected by the violence. The clergy is iin place as an informal counselor. Onme that can help the soldier in times of personal doubt or crisis. As it has been stated the U.S. often invokes God in times of war. This also helps the troops find some reason (even if it is flawed at closer inspection.) for the war that is personally justifiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Then why do they do it? Why claim to have God on their side? It makes even less sense when you explain it like that.You'll have to ask another American that question Tormod, I don't have an answer for you. Policies are made by those in authority, I'm sure we common folk are not privilaged to all the information that goes into such decisions. I for one would like the USA to pay more attention to things here at home and spend less time involved in other matters. I believe the excuse is, things are done by focusing on American interests. I for one am not qualified to determine the value placed on many of these decisions. Don't automaticly assume that I am in total agreement with the policies of this government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I believe that America came to the defense of Europe against Nazi domination for human interest, would you like to have things returned to post war conditions? What human interests would that be? Deffinatly not the Jew's. Early in Hitlers Final Solution, deportation of the Jews was one of the attempted methods to "cleanse" the motherland. The reason it did not work was that no-one would really accept them. The U.S. sent back a number of ships of deported Jews to Germany because they were not welcome here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Then why do they do it? Why claim to have God on their side? It makes even less sense when you explain it like that. Now it seems the dogma is "My god can beat up your god." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Don't automaticly assume that I am in total agreement with the policies of this government. Point taken, infamous. I hope you don't feel I am attacking you personally - it is not my intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 What human interests would that be? Deffinatly not the Jew's. Early in Hitlers Final Solution, deportation of the Jews was one of the attempted methods to "cleanse" the motherland. The reason it did not work was that no-one would really accept them. The U.S. sent back a number of ships of deported Jews to Germany because they were not welcome here.The interest of the English, the Polish, the French, should I go on? Yes you pick out one issue where America should have found other answers, but for the total effort America has nothing to be ashamed of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Point taken, infamous. I hope you don't feel I am attacking you personally - it is not my intention.Tormod, I don't feel attacked, just misunderstood. I have found your behavior to be fair and considerate, moreso than a few here at Hypography that choose to shout rather than discuss. I enjoy debating with you because I can always depend on an honest approach from you and always a careful examination of the points in question. Have a good one Tormod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 The interest of the English, the Polish, the French, should I go on? Yes you pick out one issue where America should have found other answers, but for the total effort America has nothing to be ashamed of.I feel that much of that was the by-product of the US serving their own interests. Ratcheting up the war effort on the home front helped re-vitalize the languishing economy. The bombing of Pearl Harbor was allowed to break the popular isolationist movement and gain momentum for the US to join the war. We stray from the subject...this shouldn't be a history discussion (As examples yes, but debating interpretation I feel belongs elsewhere.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I feel that much of that was the by-product of the US serving their own interests. [/Quote] Very true, serving our own interest. Who's interest should we be serving, Japan's, Germany's, Russia's, what reason would we have to do that. In retrospect however each one of these nations has prospered because of our self serving interest. I'll ask you again, who's interest should we be serving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 infamous, your quotes are not right. A quote begins with QUOTE but also ends with a /QUOTE. You also seem to have a quote tag on your own comments which is not necessary. :hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Well the after effects of WWII have essentially produced the situation in both the middle east as well as Africa by essentailly randomly carving up the land with no real understanding of cultural vairances. So the locals got a great deal from us on that deal now didn't they? We have a glogal civilization now. One must look out for this as a whole (or parts will come back and bite you in the ***). Actions must be taken so the over-all good is reached. (Which I guess is in our own interests in the larger scope). For the US to continually propigate mass consuption and disposable life-styles we must essentially be crapping on the third world. Yes it is nice to get a new pair of Nikes, but is it nice that child labor produced them in Indoneasia? Is that really for the over-all good? You look cool in your new kicks, and hopefully the little kid that spent the last 13 hrs at the die press didn't nod off and forget to pull out his hand. But I suppose its OK.. He's making about 10 cents a day. That will buy him rice and porridge. Maybe he could even bring some back to his parrents as long as the corrupt US propped government has not ushered him off into some dark cornner and left him there dead. In WWII Russia was on our side...One of the main reasons Germany lost was opening the Western front against the Russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Well the after effects of WWII have essentially produced the situation in both the middle east as well as Africa by essentailly randomly carving up the land with no real understanding of cultural vairances. So the locals got a great deal from us on that deal now didn't they? We have a glogal civilization now. One must look out for this as a whole (or parts will come back and bite you in the ***). Actions must be taken so the over-all good is reached. (Which I guess is in our own interests in the larger scope). For the US to continually propigate mass consuption and disposable life-styles we must essentially be crapping on the third world. Yes it is nice to get a new pair of Nikes, but is it nice that child labor produced them in Indoneasia? Is that really for the over-all good? You look cool in your new kicks, and hopefully the little kid that spent the last 13 hrs at the die press didn't nod off and forget to pull out his hand. But I suppose its OK.. He's making about 10 cents a day. That will buy him rice and porridge. Maybe he could even bring some back to his parrents as long as the corrupt US propped government has not ushered him off into some dark cornner and left him there dead. Yes, I guess your right. Every problem in the world is America's fault. And nothing we have done has been of any value to other nations. Gotzya!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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