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Spinning Button On A String


Turtle

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Ever learn when you were a kid to thread a button on a loop of string & set it to spinning back & forth by pulling the ends? If not, try it; if so, considerwhat parameters for a proper physics description of this device you need.. Here's a helpful image (click image for full-size view):

I have been experimenting for years & it's fascinating in its simplistic complexity. :hihi:

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I guess it's obsession is all; I latch onto some interesting idea I run across & then sometimes it becomes an obsession. My obsessions last on average about 10 years. Once locked on, I work to take the idea to some extreme. I have one of these disks that is 4 feet long & requires 2 people pulling on one end (the other tied to wall/tree) to set it working. I haven't finished painting the design on it yet so haven't made a video of it working.

___ Mickey Hart in Planet Drum: A Celebration of Percussion and Rhythm by Mickey Hart, Fredric Lieberman, D. A. Sonneborn, talks of the little disks & calls them "diables" I found the Udeghe people of Russia call them Khua & use them for sorcery. It is also called whirligig as a toy from at least 17 century in Europe & America. The research goes on. I invite everyone to make one & give it a whirl :) :)

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Possibly chaos theory; no certainly chaos theory! Ijust posted under Pictures on my page some instructions to build one & at the bottom of that document some of the physics considerations. Also a document called Vessica Piscus; this is the shape I now use for the disks. Very, very dynamic machine. :) Thanks Amber for your interest & support. Anybody els care to comment? Come on now; don't be shy. :) :) :)

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  • 1 month later...

___Just ran across this article today:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-03/12/content_2686446.htm

 

___While the object pictured is claimed as a knife, I believe it is a Diable/Khua, ie. for spinning on a string. The serations & shape would give it a unique sound.

___By the way, the name Khua for the device is from the Udeghe(sp) people of the Russia/China Eastern coastal region.

___Very interesting!!! :cup:

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Anyone else play with this as a child? Did you have a name for this? :cup:

 

As a kid??? I still do that! I sometimes use a pair of scissors though (more weight, and therfore easier to maintain motion). I never really thought about it though, i just accepted that it happened and enjoyed. I'm a terrible scientist :cup:. Keep up the good work Turtle! :cup:

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___I will look DarkMind; I had to unsubscribe from quite a few threads as so many stretched me a little thin.

___Back on topic, attached find a scan of one of my Khua. This one is in the shape of the Vesica Piscis, which I am discussing in the thread by that name. In profile, my Khua is an airfoil. ie. flat on one side & rounded on the other.

___All of the holes in mine are for experimenting with changing the string position & only 2 holes are required. It is interesting to note that the artifact is somewhat antithetical to the vesica piscis, flaring out where mine flares in. Of course now I have to make a Khua in the artifact shape & detail to see how it sounds.

____Thanks for the interest. I will look for some pertinent links to post. Keep on spinning! :cup:

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___Nice corallary Maddog; fascination, spinning, & long hours spent join the topics logically. As I have spent considerable time spinning coins too (I assume you mean spinning free on a flat surface), it occured several times that when the coin stopped, it did not fall over. Now with a quarter (or dime) this is less likely because the rilling on the thin edge tends to roundness, whereas 1/2 dollars, dollars, nickels, & pennies have a sufficiently flat edge to balance on.

___This is far from a useless observation as it clearly shows that the spin (or toss) of a coin has 3 possible outcomes & not 2. Everyone simply assumes it won't land/stop on edge. Moreover, all probability is based on a single assumption, ie. fairness or equal balance, & as this is a false asuumption, probability is false too.

 

___Back to the spinning disk on a string, here is a link about the shamanic uses of the Khua by the Udeghe people.

 

http://www.kiravan.com/YAKUTSK.htm

 

A quote from that link: "They brought a shaman's drum and rattles, jaw harp kunkai and various small musical instruments such as the khua, a twirling disc on a string, to accompany their stories and songs."

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___Hey Maddog! Are you still here? Anyway, I seem to recall you posting some pretty handy calculus work & I have a calculus problem in post#11 of the vesica piscis thread. If you check it out, consider how these shapes I propose spin if you treat them like your quarters, ie. spin them on a table. I think the football shaped one might precess, that is jiggle around & the reverse direction. B) B) What do you think? :)

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  • 1 month later...

___Thanks Orby! At this point, I have to hold on further exposition due to circumstances beyond my control. I do note though that I use this device to calm my mind & reach a meditative state which helps to distract me from the chaotic struggles that abound.

___I encourage those of you that have read this & listened to the audio Orby posted for me to make your own Khua/Daible/spinning-disk-on-a-string & explore its manifold qualities. ;)

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___One of my ideas for experimenting with this device is to try & build a machine that operates it. Having such a machine I could have my hands free to adjust microphones, lasers, cameras, etc., while also having a regular rythm. Operating the spinning disk on a string by hand takes considerable effort to keep a regular rhythm, temp, beat, etc.

___I haven't tried braided wire yet on a large disk, but I have that in mind as well. I have a vesica piscis shaped disk 4 feet across which is languishing in the garage while I pursue other obsessions.

___I haven't experimented with the optical qualities of designs painted on the disk either yet, but again I have it in mind. This simple little device is a very complex thing once you start to experiment.

___Please feel free to experiment on your own & post up your findings here. :Alien:

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