# How soon will a moneyless society change the way we percieve each other?

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### #1 Peacemaker

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 01:07 PM

There is a current theory, that by adopting an open mind and a moneyless society that we can end the current round of disasters we call life. That by bringing ultimate logic to the myths and fantasies that comprise religious beliefs, that we can end the schisms that separate men from their brothers and sisters and bring about the required conditions of open mindedness that are required for mankind to move into the next stage of our evolution, to a peaceful, loving species, at one with our environment.
If you fully understand and appreciate to what I am refering, I would be most interested to hear your views.

### #2 Buffy

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 01:49 PM

You might want to start with a description of your definition of a "moneyless society"... We've had a few discussions about it around here and many have devolved around widely divergent definitions of the term...

What do you mean I have no money? I still have checks,
Buffy

### #3 DougF

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 01:58 PM

It has been said that money is the root to all evil,
I think is a true statement sense I don't have any,
if we had a money less society would it bring the world to the next stage of our evolution, to a peaceful, loving species, at one with our environment and the end of the myths and fantasies that comprise religious beliefs?
well if this was a money less society everyone on the same page as it wore.

I'm open minded, where are we going
is this the road you were taking?

### #4 Peacemaker

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 02:32 PM

You might want to start with a description of your definition of a "moneyless society"... We've had a few discussions about it around here and many have devolved around widely divergent definitions of the term...

What do you mean I have no money? I still have checks,
Buffy

Hi Buffy, When I refer to a truly moneyless society, I mean a way of life which does not weigh the worth of a human being in money or property, but treasures that person simpy because he/she is a human being and as such, a member of, potentially, the most evolved species in the known universe.

### #5 Buffy

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 02:43 PM

So what do you see as the obstacles for getting to the point where society "treasures that person simply because he/she is a human being?"

How close are we?

What do we need to do to get there?

Questions, questions, questions,
Buffy

### #6 Peacemaker

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 03:11 PM

Thanks for your question Doug, Money is the root of most evil, and that's not a misquote, it's a fact. Take away money and you end most forms of crime, and I hope you'll agree, that isn't a bad goal to aim for initially. The trick is, to work out how to remove money from human experience without causing any more suffering to humanity. In fact, the real trick woud be to remove money from human experience, and for humanity to be really pleased about it!

Fortunately, the trick is a very simple one, with no trap doors, mirrors or invisible beings whispering in our ears.

Just a generous helping of good old fashioned common sense and straight talking, combined with tons of love and a commitment to spending our future in a better place, right here on earth.

Best regards to you and yours Doug, from me and mine.

Peacemaker.

### #7 Peacemaker

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 03:34 PM

So what do you see as the obstacles for getting to the point where society "treasures that person simply because he/she is a human being?"

How close are we?

What do we need to do to get there?

Questions, questions, questions,
Buffy

Hi Buffy, Please don't worry, I like your questions, they are pertinent and well phrased. I shall try to do at least as well with my answers.

For your first question, The only obstacle to that point is the current state of human thinking. We have been conditioned from before our birth to believe that there is no other way to live life here on Earth than what we currently have. I disagree. I believe that by logically disproving and changing these basic beliefs, that we can progress extremely rapidly to the point where we will be mentally 'catapulted' into our next stage of evolution. That is a large part of this change, being open minded enough to question our present customs, practices and beliefs, and being even more open minded enough to be prepared to re-think our whole way of life, for the better...and I don't mean slightly better, I mean a quantum leap better.

### #8 DougF

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 03:44 PM

Peacemaker
Thanks for your question Doug, Money is the root of most evil, and that's not a misquote, it's a fact. Take away money and you end most forms of crime, and I hope you'll agree,

Well lets see, Rape, domestic volince, child abuce, druge lelated crims.
but we can talk about these latter if you like.

Buffy
So what do you see as the obstacles for getting to the point where society "treasures that person simply because he/she is a human being?"

How close are we?

What do we need to do to get there?

Questions, questions, questions,

.

Peacemaker
Best regards to you and yours Doug, from me and mine.

Thank you!

### #9 Peacemaker

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 03:50 PM

Hi again Buffy:)
As to the second question, we are very close. The document is written, the rules are written, and very simple. I think these ten will make much more sense to humanity than the previous ten.

As to the third question, I have to send you this document. it is a word document of about 65 pages. If the whole of humanity can get to hear this message, and read and fully understand this document within the next three months, this will begin in three months and one day. That is how powerful this document is. There is nothing in it which will ultimately be to the detriment of any human being on this planet. It is the blueprint to a way of 'being' on this planet which will stand mankind in good stead for the rest of our existence. I guarantee it. Unconditionally.
So I suppose the short answer to question 3 is, we have to be prepared to change our opinions.

Best regards to you and yours, Buffy, from me and mine.

Peacemaker.

### #10 Peacemaker

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 04:13 PM

Well lets see, Rape, domestic volince, child abuce, druge lelated crims.
but we can talk about these latter if you like.

.

Thank you!

Hi again Doug, Well, lets talk about the crimes you mention. Firstly, drug production and trafficking would end extremely repidly, because with no money to be made by producing or supplying drugs to the general poopulation, what motive would anyone have to do it? (except possibly for existing addicts who had access to the raw materials and knowhow to make enough for their habit?). As to the rest, another vital ingredient of the society I foresee is to end violence in all its forms. Violence will be the only crime anyone will be able to commit, and I predict that within 7 days of the introduction of this way of thinking, the vast majority of the crimes to which you refer will just stop. They will stop because we will see each other very differently, we will see every single human being on this planet as family. This is a small part of the evolution I am referring to.

The usual to you and yours Doug, all the best!

Peacemaker.

### #11 CraigD

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 04:36 PM

If you fully understand and appreciate to what I am refering, I would be most interested to hear your views.

I think I’ve a reasonable understanding of the subject of “moneyless society”, but not your particular views on it, Peacemaker. I look forward to reading them.

I’d like to turn the question around on you, and ask, that you read the hypography thread Moneyless society : Would it benefit society?, and give your opinion on the many points raised there.

Also, are you familiar with fictional treatments of the subject, such as Charles Stross’s ”Accelerando” (available in its entirety online for free, in libraries, or via traditional commercial stores)

### #12 Buffy

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:48 PM

Honestly, don't send us to a 65 page document. Lets discuss the key points here if you want to.

Please remember this is a Science Forum, and you're going to have to provide some logic backed by facts if you want to get anywhere here: "solutions" of the form "all we have to do is get everyone to believe in this 65-page document" will gain no traction here....

Creating Nirvana is easy: just kill everyone who disagrees with you,
Buffy

### #13 Racoon

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 06:07 PM

It has been said that money is the root to all evil,
?

Its the Love of money that is the root of all evil.
Not Money itself..

Is this thread trying to make a distinction between a cashless society or a moneyless society ??

Becuz' insert the term 'Money' to use for trading purposes.
I can grow 20 pounds of Carrots for $50, while you can mine 20 ounces of Copper for an equivalent$50. (you get my point)

Money is the medium unto which there is trade.

Otherwise it becomes a complete Barter System..
And that has less restirction or regulation to it..
And thusly will become a Zen matter of what people need at that time. a free market in and of itself still, but to much more haggling and debate..

### #14 DougF

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 07:51 PM

[Quote=]Peacemaker
[Quote=]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougF
Well lets see, Rape, domestic violence, child abuse, drug related crimes.
but we can talk about these latter if you like.
Thank you! [/Quote]

Hi again Doug, Well, lets talk about the crimes you mention. Firstly, drug production and trafficking would end extremely repidly, because with no money to be made by producing or supplying drugs to the general poopulation, what motive would anyone have to do it? (except possibly for existing addicts who had access to the raw materials and knowhow to make enough for their habit?). As to the rest, another vital ingredient of the society I foresee is to end violence in all its forms. Violence will be the only crime anyone will be able to commit, and I predict that within 7 days of the introduction of this way of thinking, the vast majority of the crimes to which you refer will just stop. They will stop because we will see each other very differently, we will see every single human being on this planet as family. This is a small part of the evolution I am referring to.

The usual to you and yours Doug, all the best![/Quote]

existing addicts who want drugs will still your plasma TV (we still have TV's don't we) and Barter it for drugs (IE: no monies.) and even the John Joe down the street if wants a bag of Weed he'll trade his homegrown tomato's for it (IE: no monies) if the people want it they well get it.
Rape has no monetary value (not for profit IE: no monies)
[quote name='][B]within 7 days of the introduction of this way of thinking' date=' the vast majority of the crimes to which you refer will just stop.[/B'][/Quote]

[Quote=]Racoon
Its the Love of money that is the root of all evil.
Not Money itself..[/Quote]
yes I agree.

[Quote=]Racoon
is this thread trying to make a distinction between a cashless society or a moneyless society ??[/Quote
moneyless, I think, were working on that.

[Quote=]Racoon
Becuz' insert the term 'Money' to use for trading purposes.
I can grow 20 pounds of Carrots for $50, while you can mine 20 ounces of Copper for an equivalent$50. (you get my point)[/Quote]
If their isn't any money
[Quote=]Racoon
Money is the medium unto which there is trade.[/Quote]
yes now but I'm waiting to see where Peacemaker takes us.
[Quote=]Racoon
Otherwise it becomes a complete Barter System..
And that has less restirction or regulation to it..
And thusly will become a Zen matter of what people need at that time. /Quote]
sounds good too me.

### #15 InfiniteNow

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 08:50 PM

Take away money and you will still trade for reproductive opportunity. We still trade emotional connection. We will still trade knowledge. Your 65 page panacea seems to miss the bigger point.

### #16 DougF

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 09:02 PM

Take away money and you will still trade for reproductive opportunity. We still trade emotional connection. We will still trade knowledge. Your 65 page panacea seems to miss the bigger point.

I guess I'm going to drop back and read these 65 pages, I'll be back in a sec.

### #17 Zythryn

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 06:13 AM

A moneyless society will NEVER exist, IF by money you mean a method of barter/trade.
You would need to eliminate the desire of hoarding, as well of having something. If more people desire something than can be produced, there will be demand for it. How do you decide who gets the item(s)?

OK, I will modify my original statement. A moneyless society can exist ONLY when every single individual has no needs or wants. Has everthing they desire to have.
So, while I like the idea of there being no need in the world, I don't believe that is possible with todays technology nor with this number of humans on the planet as we simply don't have the raw resources to provide everyone with everything they need, much less want.
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