nutronjon Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 As of yet, science has no tools I know of to use to in anyway understand God, The very concept is outside of the domain of science. If such tools are ever developed I would be the first to promote their use. Philosophy can debate the existence of God but not prove or even offer evidence of God. Do you have any links or other sources to show where your ideas about UFOs come from? Or the Nazi's, Great Britain or the US using UFOs as study material? The Manhattan project was the development of the Atomic bomb not the study of UFOs. Having been very interested in UFOs for more than 45 years I would love to read anything you have on the subject. Yes, what I said about UOF's was accurate and I got the information from-OPB TV .... Secrets Of The Dead. EPISODE TITLE:. The Hunt For Nazi Scientists ... Ufo's: The Real History. There is a channel for UFO hunters that might interest you, although I don't think the Secrets of the Dead show is explained at this site: MeeVee - UFO Hunters (TV Show) Videos, TV Listings, News, Gossip, Photos, Boards, Discussions What is happening to the argument about God? I never said science could study God unless we consider God and nature as the same thing, which we can do. I have spoken only of studying nature, so why are you arguing we can not study God? It is crazy making when people's arguments are coming out of their own heads, rather than out of what I say. Cicero did not say we could study God. He said we could study nature and from that infer something about God. When we do this, it is abstract thinking, not concrete thinking. Abstract-thought of apart from material objects. Gravity is not a material object, so we study it by studying material objects, and infer from our observations of matter something about gravity. Studying God is like that. There are important reasons for doing this abstract thinking, that we can never get to, as long people insist on preventing discussion by refuting the whole notion of a God, no matter what. Philosophy can not discuss God, as long as some prevent any discussion of God from moving beyond the point of insisting there is no God. We are discussing this is a theology thread and the discussion can not move past the complete denial of God. I would like to suggest people who have no more to say about God than "God doesn't exist" stay out of the theology forum, because they are blocking discussions without making valuable contributions. I don't think the moderators should be tolerating this distruction of the theology thread, where even here, discussion of God is prevented. To clarify, Cicero, Jefferson and I are speaking of studying nature, not a God. After studying nature, we can think abstractly about a God, using our study of nature to infer something about a God. When this is understood, people's minds will no longer held in closed boxes that prevent them from seeing outside the box, and that is how human knowledge is progressed. Our knowledge can not be progressed, when our freedom of speech is prevented by those who seem to think they right to prevent discussion of subjects of which they do not approve, and that is exactly what is happening here in the theology thread. Our understanding of God is retarded by those who prevent all discussion of God, with their one argument that God doesn't exist. Several scientist give their opinion about "Does science make belief in God Obsolete?" at A Templeton Conversation: Does science make belief in God obsolete? There is so much to be said, and we are prevented wonderful and stimulating discussions when people think they have a right to prevent everyone from discussing God, because they hold their understanding of God is the only one people are allowed to have. That God doesn't exist, period, end of discussion. Please, those who want to prevent discussion of God should stay out of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Why call it god when it's already otherwise and uniquely named? Since it can be called by another name, it is no longer god, it is instead that "other" thing. <thanks ughaibu, whom I tried to paraphrase here from a post he made elsewhere> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutronjon Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 It's not clear that there are laws of nature. Can you defend your claim? Hum, I don't think there would be a science forum, nor any sciences, if there were no laws of nature. :D Where are you coming from to suggest there are no laws of nature, some kind of fantatical religious group that thinks everything happens because a God, or Gods, will it to happen, and that these Gods can do anything they please, whenever they please? In ancient Athens, the philosophers determined, reason, is the controlling force of the universe, and even the gods are subject to reason. Now we no longer speak of gods but the laws of nature. As for the argument we should come up with another word, other than God, I will argue, truth is better served if we stick with the word "God". This is because there are several religions and these people war with each other, because they lack agreements about truth. Cicero, held that when we understand the laws of nature, and govern ourselves based on these laws, such conflict will come to an end, and we will have rule by reason. That is what democracy is about. It is not the word we need to change, but our understanding of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 I don't think there would be a science forum, nor any sciences, if there were no laws of natureThat's an opinion. Please explain what you mean by "a law of nature" and explain how the reality of such laws is necessary for science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Bad choice, hydrogen was the first element and all others transmuted from it. The elements have the qualities of yin and yang, and the discussion on truth is not closed. Separation is illusion of the wholeness. There are only 2 real particles in the universe and that is the electrons and the protons.They form the basic element that fuses to form heavier elements.Although the HA itself may appear to change, the 2 particles retain their original characteristics. I interpret the Conservation of Matter Law that implies 'Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. So the physical universe does apply to mathematical laws but this does not apply to the biological organisms although there are some compliances to the DNA molecular chains. Mike C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeztar Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 There are only 2 real particles in the universe and that is the electrons and the protons. Mike, there are many more than 2. List of particles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted May 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Mike, there are many more than 2. List of particles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The list of these particles are also in the physics books.They are the result of nuclear research and classifying them as a need? But the only two 'major' players in the universe are the electrons and the protons The rest of these particles are just fringe creations/discoveries that do not do much of anything of importance. It is the hydogen gases that fuse into the stars that constitute 95+% of the mass in the universe.That is why I generally ignore the others. Mike C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 The rest of these particles are just fringe creations/discoveries that do not do much of anything of importance. How can you make such ludicrous comments and still take yourself seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 The list of these particles are also in the physics books.They are the result of nuclear research and classifying them as a need? But the only two 'major' players in the universe are the electrons and the protons The rest of these particles are just fringe creations/discoveries that do not do much of anything of importance. It is the hydogen gases that fuse into the stars that constitute 95+% of the mass in the universe.That is why I generally ignore the others. Mike C A suggestion Mike. I am generally against most litigation but I think you should consult with an attorney if you have any diplomas or degrees because you did not get you money's worth of education in this area. You should sue your previous academic institutions for both malpractice and dereliction of duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REASON Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 The rest of these particles are just fringe creations/discoveries that do not do much of anything of importance. It is the hydogen gases that fuse into the stars that constitute 95+% of the mass in the universe.That is why I generally ignore the others. Mike C Mike, First of all, never underestimate the value of a Neutron. Secondly, what do you think Protons are made of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Mike, First of all, never underestimate the value of a Neutron. Secondly, what do you think Protons are made of? Am I mistaken or are neutrinos not important to the scattering of the outer layers of star when it goes super nova? If the layers don't get scattered then all that mass stays where it was made! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 A red blood cell, after dropping of his load of oxygen is ask by a neuron in the brain . “You have traveled the world blood cell, is there a God ?” The blood cell replies. Every cell has its function in the ecosystem, this is clear, this is what I see. I pick up and deliver oxygen, why do you ask me, anyway, aren't you are the governors that control this world? “I don't control or create anything, I just pass on signals, this is my function, I wish I could make sense of it all, sometimes I feel like we are all part of something larger, you know ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REASON Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Maybe our solar system is really just an atom that is located along a fold of God's sphincter. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Maybe our solar system is really just an atom that is located along a fold of God's sphincter. :) Somehow that wouldn't come as a real big surprise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Maybe we are points of conscious light of an ever evolving neural network, expanding outward into the cosmos,the ground of all being. Are maybe where just assholes. Depends on your particular point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 A red blood cell, after dropping of his load of oxygen is ask by a neuron in the brain . “You have traveled the world blood cell, is there a God ?” The blood cell replies. Every cell has its function in the ecosystem, this is clear, this is what I see. I pick up and deliver oxygen, why do you ask me, anyway, aren't you are the governors that control this world? “I don't control or create anything, I just pass on signals, this is my function, I wish I could make sense of it all, sometimes I feel like we are all part of something larger, you know ? Then a virus came along and killed them both horrifically? :) -modest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 And they called it Satan.....:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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