Kangaroos in California

[Michaelangelica]

I note that the care2 C2nn forums have been seriously spamed by people wanting Australians not to eat kangaroo. With horrible photos. There is even a group in Russia trying to stop kangaroos being killed

Save Kangaroos From Slaughter--Stop SB 880! visit site

Animals (tags: animal, animals, AnimalCruelty, kangaroos )

Lea

Lea has received 2 new, 13 total stars from Care2 membersLea has been awarded 41 butterflies for taking action at Care2Lea has 2 Golden Notes. - 34 days ago - getactive.peta.org

Kangaroos face imminent danger if a California bill becomes law. Senate Bill 880 would legalize kangaroo skin sales in California, where they have been banned since 1970.

If you have a friend in California who actually votes please send him my reply:-

 

 

Kangaroos and Australia

Please note that Australia has a VERY different environment from the rest of the world.

Europeans who have just got here are just finding that out.

Please think about that before you jump feet first into issues like this

 

A far as petitions to stop Kangaroo meat being exported I have this to say:-

 

Kangaroos do far less damage to the ecology and GHGs of Australia than sheep cattle and goats.(and feral pigs, horses and Camels)

Any threatened wallaby varieties are protected.

Those used for meat are farmed or in plaque proportions.

Kangaroos have a unique reproductive system.(Developed no doubt in response to Australia's sea-saw climate from drought to plenty)

Kangaroos can carry three fertilised ovum at any one time.

They only let the fetus (S) develop when the season allows.

Thus they can survive long droughts, bush fires and poor seasons.

A decimated population can bounce back practically overnight when good conditions return.

They have evolved to adapt to the vagaries, drought,fire, flood of the Australian Continent.

 

Kangaroo meat is very lean and much better for you than fatty beef or Lamb.

If it is a little undercooked it is tasty and tender.

It has been eaten in this country by humans for over 40,000 without any danger of extinction.

In fact the people, the land and the kangaroos have evolved in a mutually dependent harmony.

 

Australian farmers should be growing kangaroos for McDonalds not cattle.

In fact this could be better for the kangaroos. If they were farmed properly more research would be done on them by departments of agriculture and more kangaroos would be assured feed, rather than starving to death. in bad seasons ( At the moment a bail of lucern hay is $27 because of the drought-Pre -drought the cost was $5.) So eating Kangaroo might be the best way to help the species.

More humane slaughtering processes probably should be developed.

 

At the moment farmers are shooting their Cattle and sheep to prevent a more inhumane starving to death.

This is taking a huge toll on the psyche of farmers.Big male kangaroo with large body mass are the first to starve.

Many farmers have many "wild" areas on their farms for kangaroos. (Many "farms" are much bigger than some American States!) Farmers will shoot kangaroos rather than see them slowly starve to death.They would do this for any animal. many rural properties have semi-wild Roo pets. Many of which they have saved from death. Paying vet bills to tarqualizer dart damaged animals and try to save them ( great skill and special diet and 24 hour dedication is needed) See some country stories stories here

Bush Telegraph

especially the story of "Country Viewpoint: Anne Carson, Melbourne"

"Good" farmers shoot starving kangaroos; "Bad" farmers won't waste the price of the bullets and let them starve to death.

(Some farmers are just surviving on hand-outs at the moment, and they are very proud, independent people who love the land). Big agri-business and corporate money are buying them out for 'a song' at the moment)

OR

Rather than signing petitions send $27 for a bale of hay so they don't starve to death.

There are bones littering the Australian landscape at the moment with our 1in 1,000 year Mother of All Droughts. (Recently, we got a little rain, so this will help every living thing).

 

I would be much happier signing a petition to ban Cows and sheep (and feral pigs, horses, camels, cattle) in Australia, who do much damage to our soil and environment.

 

Cooking with Kangaroo:

KIAA - Cooking with Kangaroo

kangaroo meat cuts and recipes

Kangaroo Meat - The Basic Cuts. Click on each cut of meat for Kangaroo Recipes. cuts2.gif (131361 bytes) · back.gif (3567 bytes)

kangaroo meat cuts and recipes - 3k -

 

Recipes for Kangaroo.

Recipes for kangaroo meat

 

Michael

In Australia.--

"You can fix all the world's problems in a garden. . . . Most people don't know that"

FROM

http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf

[Boerseun]

Can't agree with you more.

 

I can't understand why people get all fired up about killing and eating a species, if that species is sustainably farmed. They don't say a word about us killing hundreds of thousands of cows, pigs, goats, chickens, sheep, etc., every single day. Over here, the Next Big Thing is ostrich meat. Apparently much healthier than normal beef or pork, but it's not going down very well with the environmentalists. Meantime, ostrich hens lay many, many eggs - enough for restuarants here to offer ostrich egg omelettes - but only for the very hungry. But because they're cute, people are discouraged from eating them. The hypocricy will be the end of me. I have seen many cute calfs with huge, trusting big black calf eyes, yet they end up in the abbatoir without the environmentalists blinking once.

[Tormod]

I wonder how Californians can eat veal.

[Michaelangelica]

Can't agree with you more.

 

I can't understand why people get all fired up about killing and eating a species, if that species is sustainably farmed. They don't say a word about us killing hundreds of thousands of cows, pigs, goats, chickens, sheep, etc., every single day.. . . I have seen many cute calfs with huge, trusting big black calf eyes, yet they end up in the abbatoir without the environmentalists blinking once.

 

 

 

Thanks Boerseun, I am under fire at care2 (they must all be vegetarians).

E.G.,

Your many statements about kangaroos are erroneous, and show a lack of knowledge of the situation. There are many reasons why your assumptions are incorrect, which I will not go into detail now,

 

I do think Australians can do better than a bullet in the head for kangaroos.

 

I saw a wonderful program where the famous psychiatrist Marcus Sacks interviewed an autistic woman who designed humane killing systems for cattle.

It had me in tears. The cattle get a cuddle just before they die.:shrug: (Someone needs to start a Web site for brilliant docos such as this and the Terra preta one).

I will quite happily go vegetarian if someone else will cook for me.

 

My cats love kangaroo, the crabs in the lake love kangaroo, and I love kangaroo (If my wife cooks it -it HAS to be underdone, mine is Terra preta material).

 

I am reminded of a family story my very urban relatives from the BIG city of Melbourne ( they think so) went to see their city-bred-white- accountant son who had been working in a far north aboriginal community (The pointy, top, empty bit of Australia).

He picked up his mum and dad from the air-port and started the 6 hour drive to the remote aboriginal community where he was working.

He stopped suddenly, on a rough, bush, dirt track as a echidna was on the road.

They are beautiful,gentle, cute, fascinating, ant-eating, bit rare, monotreme.

They look little like Miss Tiggy Winkle from Beatrix Potter only a bit bigger. ( see pic)

He stopped, got out,

got a piece of 4x2 timber,

and bashed it's brains in.

"Great eating those!" he said as he threw the corpse into the back of the Ute.

(apparently they are tastier than pork)

(Native hunting rights)

 

This one, the first, of many, cultural shocks that my stunned relatives, received that visit!!

[Boerseun]

He stopped suddenly, on a rough, bush, dirt track as a echidna was on the road...

"Great eating those!"

...and they come with their own toothpicks!

[Jay-qu]

I have eaten Kangaroo before and they sure do give a nice tender steak when cooked nicely. I think it is odd that they havent made their way into the mainstream diet - the only cabnet at safeway that has roo meat is the pet food fridge!

[freeztar]

Are these people really serious?

:D

 

You gotta love that holier than thou attitude that some people carry. As if Californians have any clue what is best for Australia and its people. And as has already been pointed out, what about other animals. Why are they picking on roos?

 

Perhaps these people should turn to a more native example and look at the populations of deer in this country.

In states where deer herds are thriving, officials have lengthened the hunting season and increased the limit on the number of animals hunters can take. Michigan's deer population peaked at 1.7 million in 1989. Since then, longer fall hunting seasons had decreased that number by nearly 10 percent. The goal, according to an official from the Department of Natural Resources, is to cut the herd to 1.3 million by 1992.

Deer-Vehicle Collisions are Numerous and Costly. Do Countermeasures Work?

 

It would be interesting to know the vehicle-kangaroo collissions in Oz on an annual basis. It would be even more interesting to see an inverse relationship of kangaroo population numbers versus vehicle-kangaroo collisions injury and mortality rates. It probably wouldn't shut them up, but it would be a juicy argument eh?

[Michaelangelica]

It would be interesting to know the vehicle-kangaroo collisions in Oz on an annual basis.

This is our smallest state.

("The ruination of a good sheep farm!" Canberra, ACT) where they want to cull Kangaroos.

"NRMA" is a local motorists help and insurance association

NRMA data for the ACT and surrounding region only show that claims for vehicle-kangaroo collisions range between 20 and 70 per month.

Given the high density of kangaroos within the ACT, accidents with kangaroos within the ACT are responsible for a significant proportion of these claims.

LIVING WITH EASTERN GREY KANGAROOS IN THE A

 

Some better figures

The Pedestrian Council : Bye-bye bullbar

Bye-bye bullbar

The Age

Thursday 27 November 2003

RACV Insurance found kangaroos accounted for almost 60 per cent of "animal collision" claims it received in the 12 months. . .

 

Nationwide, the number of kangaroo-vehicle collisions is about 20,000 a year, according to Holden estimates.

 

Despite the advent of sonic devices such as the Shu Roo and wildlife warning reflectors such as Swareflex, the number of vehicle-kangaroo collisions is increasing, according to a recent report from the University of Melbourne's department of zoology.

I might post that one at care2

[freeztar]

Post a link to the forum over there if you need some backup. :xx:

[Buffy]

PETA is mostly behind this one, and the save-the-roo folks just believe that you shouldn't kill anything, even if its overpopulated. The folks arguing the case in the legislature are a tiny bit more realistic, making the argument that "since they are hunted at night, you might not be able to tell 'endangered roos' from the overpopulated species."

 

I've been to Oz and played with the roos. But in a lot of ways, they're gigantic rats....

 

Also, as Michaelangelica noted above, law in California about roo *skins* (and is actually a *repeal* of an *existing* law banning sales of roo skin, so being *for* the new law is to be *against* the ban) and because they are aparently considered superior for soccer, there is actually quite a demand for them, to the point that one of the key companies lobbying for the law is Adidas! Today's paper noted that with internet sales, even if the law fails, Californians will still be able to legally buy them by mail. But this is offshoring excelent shoe-sales jobs from California to Iowa, and I for one will not stand ferigners continuing to take our jobs! :P

 

Rooburgers with Vegemite! Mmmmm! Nummy!

Buffy

[Michaelangelica]

You are spot on, as always, Buffy

(BUT Roobergers with vegimite! ( 'spell check' has just had a fit) You are one EVIL:evil: Vampire slayer)

 

It turns out that the petition was about allowing roo fur into California.

I didn't even get a chance to see it before it was pulled.

Many said it was mis-leading as it said California should repeal anti-roo laws.

Thats what drew my attention to it in the first place.

Many have said "Well no; it was not misleading, if you actually READ it!"

 

I got an email from one of the people involved last night which I answered in long detail

Then I got a personal attack and then told her to join me here for an open discussion & debate on the issue or to go away.

Looks like she has "gone away"

 

I love kangaroos. I like lambs and cows and all animals. No animal should be treated badly. All animals should be treated with respect. Perhaps also gratitude as they keep us alive.

Slaughtering roos is a problem, but we are not a lot better at the cattle and sheep abattoirs.

There are many problems farming kangaroos (They jump very high fences.)

In the end they are a better environmental deal for this country and eating them would reduce our coronary disease rate.

The French love Roo meat, but they are used to eating their meat blue or rare. One of the reasons Roo is not popular here is most backyard BBQers pyrolyze their meat (Terra preta style). Roo has to be cooked rare, and this puts many off.

The TV series "Skippy" didn't help either

"Skippy Burgers"?

[freeztar]

Thanks Buffy. I read the first word and it explained it all.

PETA amuses me with their antics. Sometimes I want to slap them with the law for continually trampling plants, but so far I have not been able to garner support. They continue to slay cotton only to use it for their cloaking. It makes me sick! I'd post some pics, but I know some people around here would just not want to see such violence.

 

But seriously, if they ship the skins to Cali, then at least include the meat as well so we can give it to Cisco and it might come my way.

[TheFaithfulStone]

I once horrified a state park ranger by stating that I had seen all of the animals in their park, and now I just needed to taste them. Mooseburger is hard to come by.

 

I'm adding kangaroo to my 'dead animals to eat before I die' list, now, though. Sounds tasty.

 

TFS

[man - the deadliest prey...]

[Moontanman]

I note that the care2 C2nn forums have been seriously spamed by people wanting Australians not to eat kangaroo. With horrible photos. There is even a group in Russia trying to stop kangaroos being killed

 

If you have a friend in California who actually votes please send him my reply:-

 

 

Kangaroos and Australia

Please note that Australia has a VERY different environment from the rest of the world.

Europeans who have just got here are just finding that out.

Please think about that before you jump feet first into issues like this

 

A far as petitions to stop Kangaroo meat being exported I have this to say:-

 

Kangaroos do far less damage to the ecology and GHGs of Australia than sheep cattle and goats.(and feral pigs, horses and Camels)

Any threatened wallaby varieties are protected.

Those used for meat are farmed or in plaque proportions.

Kangaroos have a unique reproductive system.(Developed no doubt in response to Australia's sea-saw climate from drought to plenty)

Kangaroos can carry three fertilised ovum at any one time.

They only let the fetus (S) develop when the season allows.

Thus they can survive long droughts, bush fires and poor seasons.

A decimated population can bounce back practically overnight when good conditions return.

They have evolved to adapt to the vagaries, drought,fire, flood of the Australian Continent.

 

Kangaroo meat is very lean and much better for you than fatty beef or Lamb.

If it is a little undercooked it is tasty and tender.

It has been eaten in this country by humans for over 40,000 without any danger of extinction.

In fact the people, the land and the kangaroos have evolved in a mutually dependent harmony.

 

Australian farmers should be growing kangaroos for McDonalds not cattle.

In fact this could be better for the kangaroos. If they were farmed properly more research would be done on them by departments of agriculture and more kangaroos would be assured feed, rather than starving to death. in bad seasons ( At the moment a bail of lucern hay is $27 because of the drought-Pre -drought the cost was $5.) So eating Kangaroo might be the best way to help the species.

More humane slaughtering processes probably should be developed.

 

At the moment farmers are shooting their Cattle and sheep to prevent a more inhumane starving to death.

This is taking a huge toll on the psyche of farmers.Big male kangaroo with large body mass are the first to starve.

Many farmers have many "wild" areas on their farms for kangaroos. (Many "farms" are much bigger than some American States!) Farmers will shoot kangaroos rather than see them slowly starve to death.They would do this for any animal. many rural properties have semi-wild Roo pets. Many of which they have saved from death. Paying vet bills to tarqualizer dart damaged animals and try to save them ( great skill and special diet and 24 hour dedication is needed) See some country stories stories here

Bush Telegraph

especially the story of "Country Viewpoint: Anne Carson, Melbourne"

"Good" farmers shoot starving kangaroos; "Bad" farmers won't waste the price of the bullets and let them starve to death.

(Some farmers are just surviving on hand-outs at the moment, and they are very proud, independent people who love the land). Big agri-business and corporate money are buying them out for 'a song' at the moment)

OR

Rather than signing petitions send $27 for a bale of hay so they don't starve to death.

There are bones littering the Australian landscape at the moment with our 1in 1,000 year Mother of All Droughts. (Recently, we got a little rain, so this will help every living thing).

 

I would be much happier signing a petition to ban Cows and sheep (and feral pigs, horses, camels, cattle) in Australia, who do much damage to our soil and environment.

 

Cooking with Kangaroo:

KIAA - Cooking with Kangaroo

kangaroo meat cuts and recipes

Kangaroo Meat - The Basic Cuts. Click on each cut of meat for Kangaroo Recipes. cuts2.gif (131361 bytes) · back.gif (3567 bytes)

kangaroo meat cuts and recipes - 3k -

 

Recipes for Kangaroo.

Recipes for kangaroo meat

 

Michael

In Australia.--

"You can fix all the world's problems in a garden. . . . Most people don't know that"

FROM

http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf

 

I'm sold, where can I buy some kangaroos to breed for meat? Better yet where can I get kangaroo meat in the US? I am up for this for real, it sounds delicous! I am tired of fatty over priced beef. Kangaroo sounds much healthier.

 

Michael

[Michaelangelica]

Kangaroo boots yanked

Article from: Herald Sun

 

* Font size: Decrease Increase

* Email article: Email

* Print article: Print

 

Peta Hellard and Kelly Ryan

 

July 26, 2007 12:00am

 

CALIFORNIA has banned the sale of kangaroo-pelt soccer boots, made popular by superstar David Beckham.

 

The state Supreme Court ruled this week that all kangaroo-derived products be outlawed statewide, following an epic legal battle between animal rights organisations and sporting giant adidas.

 

But the statewide prohibition, the only one of its kind in the US, could be short-lived.

 

Legislation allowing kangaroo-derived products made by adidas and others passed the Senate this year. It is expected to clear the Assembly and arrive on Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's desk as early as September.

 

The kangaroo ban ruling -- at odds with the Federal Government's support of Australia's wildlife management plans -- overturned two lower court decisions.

Kangaroo boots yanked | Herald Sun

 

"The state has the authority to make determinations under the state Endangered Species Act

The what??Endangered Species Act, since when have Kaqngaroos been endangered???

Would you like us to ship you over this mob to look after?

The Canberra Times

03 August 2007 View all news | Send to a friend | Print

Roo move to cost $3600 a head

Cathy Alexander

 

The Defence Department has abandoned its plans to cull thousands of kangaroos around Canberra, and is now looking at trucking them to the Braidwood area.

 

The plan to move the ACT's excess kangaroos to NSW will cost at least $3600 a head.

 

Moving 100 kangaroos would cost $360,000 and take months, according to a secret report obtained by The Canberra Times.

 

A group of scientists is furious about the plan, which it describes as a waste of resources, and has called on Defence to cull the animals in the name of the environment.

canberra.yourguide.com.au

We could probably fly them over first class.

[Mercedes Benzene]

I had kangaroo once... at a restaurant in Georgetown I believe (maybe?)...

Anyway, it was delicious, although I think I ordered it too rare. I really really hate rare meat.

But yeah, I really see no point in trying to prevent kangaroo from being killed for food... or their fur for that matter, as long as they're raised for those purposes.

 

I hate PETA.

[Michaelangelica]

Thanks Buffy

I am posting a long very sane argument for roo farming & management from a Canadian (Mike Archer) of all people!

 

I somehow seem to upset Care2 and peta people all the time. My latest post was of a conservationist wearing a Feral Cat Hat. That should get some reaction;)

Rural News - 02/06/2003: Cat man wins PMs environmentalist of the year

 

There are still 3,000 starving kangaroos on defense land near Canberra that because of the Californian uproar authorities are too paralised to do anything about them.

I suggested PETA type people might like to feed them (cost c 80c-$1 a day) rather than see them slowly starve but apparently they prefer the slow starvation option.

Relocation might also be an option but it is cheaper to give them an economy seat on Qantas and fly them to California.(Many would also get business upgrades) How would 3,000 BIG Roos go at Disyneland do you think? Big mousekateers?

 

Mike Archer: Well, the obvious one that leaps up at you, if you'll pardon the pun, are kangaroos.

There are about 52 different kinds of kangaroos in Australia, only about three or four of these are involved in the kangaroo industry in Australia.

Now occasionally you'll get people around the world and in Australia who will scream oh, this is terrible, how can you shoot kangaroos and sustainably utilise them? This is our national icon bouncing around out there.

 

Well, that national icon is bouncing around there to the tune of about 53 million individuals, far more than people, twice as many as the cattle that are out there.

And Australia, as you probably know, is suffering a drought at the moment. It amused me when the first programs came up about the drought, here were all these appropriately angry graziers, farmers in Australia, who were annoyed that their cattle were being betrayed by this fickle land, as the drought rolled in the cattle rolled over and their feet went up in the air.

 

But when they were doing these first interviews, in the background you could see these kangaroos walking around, bouncing around, looking at the camera, you know, sticking their little tongue out and trying to say something to us: that while the introduced things were struggling to survive in a land of challenges the kangaroos were doing spectacularly well. Why weren't we focused on them instead of forcing these farmers to sustain us?

 

Bob McDonald: Wait a minute, are you suggesting that you farm kangaroos like we farm cattle?

 

Mike Archer: No, no, no, no no, actually that would be a no no. That's what's often thought that we are saying. Farming doesn't give you any real conservation advantage.

Sure, you're working with a native animal and there are many groups in Africa doing these sorts of things. What we're saying is sustainably wild harvest. Now this is the kindest way of gathering meat, you're not doing what we do to cattle and sheep, herding them in yards; concentrating them, OK that's pretty rough.

This is wild harvest, so what you're saying is you measure how many kangaroos are in an environment, then you determine through biological studies, research, what the recruitment rate is, how much can you harvest without having any impact on the viability of the populations.

You give tags and the shooters are out there with tags, they only shoot the number that they can, the shooting is incredibly humane.

The RSPCA, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals has analysed this carefully; over 99% of the kangaroos shot are head shots, an instant go to sleep, and then these are taken to processing plants where in fact they get far more inspections than cattle and sheep.

And this irritates me you know, because the rejection rate of kangaroos that come into the abattoirs is far lower, they're much cleaner animals than cattle and sheep.

 

The other thing is we don't share diseases with these animals. Cattle and sheep are part of our group, the placental animals, the kangaroos are marsupials, there's 250 million years of evolutionary distance between us and them. Their parasites think we're some kind of weird rock, you know they're not interested in us.

 

Bob McDonald: So you're saying that instead of having farms you're essentially going to set up game parks where you go out and you hunt the kangaroos while they're out there in the wild so that you don't have to fence them. I guess they'd be hard to fence anyway because they'd leap over.

 

Mike Archer: Yeah, you've got to have pretty tall fences, farming's just not practical. And the other thing about farming that's not good is that people then tend to modify the animal they farm and you know, some bright spark somewhere would start trying to invent a hopless kangaroo and I don't think that's got us in the conservation zone I'm looking for.

In Conversation - 31 May 2007 - Mike Archer

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