# We need a trillion more indoor plants.

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### #18 Ganoderma

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:19 AM

what i want to know about the nasa ones are thinks like temperature, efficiency output etc...then we can go shopping for similar products.

what sort of efficiency/temp etc were those party lights? anything with "party" on the box isn't too likely to go int much detail i wouldn't think.

i think we, taiwan, are the second largest LED maker in the world, second to Japan....and yet i cant dig up much more info than you....but i know japan is by far the leading edge on it...i have an article on it discussing they have gotten the most efficiency out of anyone (officially). they are a little more difficult cause they dont screw in....you gotta get them on a board, which is messed up ad a hassle....maybe they will make a board on a screw in fixture soon...wouldn't think that would be too hard....

### #19 Turtle

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:38 AM

I have been reading up on it but everyone thinks your a hydroponic MJ grower I found a fascinating article from NASA from 2001.
You would think the technology would have moved on even from then
I have tried to track down more info but with much luck

It would be nice to just plug in wide-spectrum lights to my standard old house fittings.

Has anyone heard of this technology?
Has it gone anywhere? The above article is over 6 years old.
Is it commercially available?
I would imagine the lights would use small amounts of power or could run on solar panels(?)

It would not only be good for my house but would help get a lot more plants into offices and also more interesting varieties into Commercial Buildings.
You may even be able to grow your own lunch!

Would it also solve our vitamin D deficiency problems?

Watcha growin' with all them lights!? Here is a source for a variety of LED lights that fit standard screw-socket fixtures, as well as some LED light-bars.
http://www.ccrane.co...ulbs/index.aspx
Still rather expensive initially, but the power savings and long-life appears to offset initial cost over time.

### #20 Michaelangelica

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 05:46 PM

The problem is every country has different systems
We work on a fairly lethal 240Volt system
So buying from the USA (110V?) is not an option

The "party" lights weren't that "partish" they looked like normal led lights. They claimed the equivalent of 100W from 20W electricity use.
What I need to know is that sort of light better for plants?

### #21 freeztar

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 06:45 PM

The "party" lights weren't that "partish" they looked like normal led lights. They claimed the equivalent of 100W from 20W electricity use.

Are you sure you don't mean 100 lumens?
The equivalent lumens for a 100W bulb would be 1300-1700 lumens.

What I need to know is that sort of light better for plants?

Not necessarily.
The action spectra for photosynthesis, as well as the absorption spectrums for chlorophyll a and b, can be found here:
Action & Absorption Spectra

While most photosynthetic activity happens towards the red spectrum, much absorption is taking place in the blue/violet spectrum as well.

I don't really know what THE best light is for growing, but I know high-pressure sodiums are highly esteemed (they glow orange-red).
Perhaps one of those coupled with a blue party light.

### #22 Turtle

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 07:21 PM

Watcha growin' with all them lights!? Here is a source for a variety of LED lights that fit standard screw-socket fixtures, as well as some LED light-bars.
LED Light Bulbs
Still rather expensive initially, but the power savings and long-life appears to offset initial cost over time.

The problem is every country has different systems
We work on a fairly lethal 240Volt system
So buying from the USA (110V?) is not an option

You crack me up Michael. It is not a measure of lethality, and in the US we use the 240V but only for large loads like clothes dryers, ranges, water heaters, and interior heating. More problematic can be the frequency difference; in the US the frequency is 60 Hz.

But to the point, if the product is made for US standards it is likely made for Oz, European, etcetera standards. Get shopping local. Look in the plant section of stores as well as lighting; in the US we have a wide range of fluorescents bulbs made specifically for growing plants & often stocked in gardening. They come in tubes of various lengths, as well as screw in type, and they have a range of colors from reds to blues, and mixes. They have been around for at least 30 years. It's not rocket science.
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### #23 Cedars

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 07:57 PM

The problem is every country has different systems
We work on a fairly lethal 240Volt system
So buying from the USA (110V?) is not an option

The "party" lights weren't that "partish" they looked like normal led lights. They claimed the equivalent of 100W from 20W electricity use.
What I need to know is that sort of light better for plants?

Alot of those 'party lights' are colored glass and doesnt impact the type of light your receiving.

I spent alot of time researching aquatic plants for my aquarium last year. You may want to search around in those types of sites to get some ideas on how the K rating works. There are also (much fewer) groups out there that specialize in desert type indoor plants and may have some clues about K ratings and such. Look to reptile people for ideas on that. Many of them try to set up micro environments for their pets.

Depending on what kind of plant you want to grow, the type of K output a bulb is rated at is the primary factor. Usually you need to go CF to make it cost effective. The often recommended K for aquariums is 6700K to promote growth. The 'heads' use lower K to promote flowering ... somewhere in the 2200 -2500 K range if I remember right. So they grow their plants under the high K lights then to trigger flower growth, switch to lower K lighting.

I have read about some set up with multiple K rated lights where they try to mimic the sun intensity... running low lights in the morn, fire up the whole set mid day and then begin to reduce lighting to mimic late afternoons (on timers of course).

Having a good reflector above the lighting benefits the plants and should not be overlooked for an indoor project.

Heres a place with very good reflectors and lots of CF bulbs in various outputs:

Compact Fluorescent Lighting Kits

More and more places are starting tu put the K ratings on packages and more variations on output are being offered at places like Home Depot. Smaller ones were the K I needed, but too small for my aquarium. (13 watt, 17 watt iirc).

### #24 Cedars

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:09 PM

The problem is every country has different systems
We work on a fairly lethal 240Volt system
So buying from the USA (110V?) is not an option

The "party" lights weren't that "partish" they looked like normal led lights. They claimed the equivalent of 100W from 20W electricity use.
What I need to know is that sort of light better for plants?

OH! and as far as the current difference. Aquatic plants are a big thing in northern Europe so you should be able to find the correct V system. If not, they sell euro - american converter plug thingys via Radio shack (and other places whos names escape me now).

### #25 freeztar

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:27 PM

Alot of those 'party lights' are colored glass and doesnt impact the type of light your receiving.

Can you explain this some more Cedars?
I thought that changing the color of the light (ie frequency) would change it's...errr...frequency. Perhaps you mean something else by "type of light"?

### #26 DougF

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:46 PM

I found this site that has the LED grow lights.

### #27 Turtle

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:19 PM

Can you explain this some more Cedars?
I thought that changing the color of the light (ie frequency) would change it's...errr...frequency. Perhaps you mean something else by "type of light"?

I won't presume to speak for Cedars, however I didn't address the party light issue. Michael first said this:

They had led "Party Lights" which were infra red!?
The package warned they could cause burning (sunburn?)
About $15 each They were 20W equivalent to 100W They were black. Would these be better for plants? Cant, imagine what they would look like. Most 'remotes' used for TV's, receivers, you name its, use infrared LED's to transmit the codes to the receiving unit. This light they give off is invisible to the unaided eye, but turn you Nightshot video camera on them & you can see the flashing and they even illuminate quite a bit of the room. I built a small array of these to use photographing wildlife at night. I paid about$2 US whether I bought new ones at radio shack or used remotes at goodwill. I don't know their frequency, or affect on skin or plants.

But the 'party lights' sound like a bad deal. Danger Will Robinson!! Maybe they are using excess lights from a specific use requiring a certain frequency, and pawning them off as 'fun'! I see infrared LED homepathic devices these days. Are they made in China?

Grow your indoor plants in a window and add any old light you care over them and hook it to a timer. Coleus is very colorful, large leaved, tolerant of a variety of lighting, grows vigrously, and starts well from cuttings. Doesn't tolerate drying too well, but time spent watering is time spent gardening indoors. Just do it.

### #28 Cedars

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:50 PM

Can you explain this some more Cedars?
I thought that changing the color of the light (ie frequency) would change it's...errr...frequency. Perhaps you mean something else by "type of light"?

Type of light = wavelength/frequency/specific portion of the spectrum.

Plants use mostly blues and reds for growth (dependent on plant type). The aquariums tend towards blue light because it moves thru the water better than the reds (if I remember right). Many of the home lights do not produce the right wavelengths to promote plant growth. The full spectrums are getting better but its a buyer beware market out there. K rating is one way to generally measure. Some lighting packages are listing K, CRI, and graphing out what wavelength/frequency their light is producing.

### #29 Cedars

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:51 PM

I found this site that has the LED grow lights.

WHOA! Did you look up what these guys cost?

### #30 freeztar

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:15 PM

Type of light = wavelength/frequency/specific portion of the spectrum.

Plants use mostly blues and reds for growth (dependent on plant type). The aquariums tend towards blue light because it moves thru the water better than the reds (if I remember right). Many of the home lights do not produce the right wavelengths to promote plant growth. The full spectrums are getting better but its a buyer beware market out there. K rating is one way to generally measure. Some lighting packages are listing K, CRI, and graphing out what wavelength/frequency their light is producing.

I understand all this Cedars, but I still can't understand what you mean by:

Alot of those 'party lights' are colored glass and doesnt impact the type of light your receiving.

The colored glass is changing the wavelength/frequency of the light. The K scale is measuring the same thing essentially (wavelength), except it assigns the color (read wavelength) value in relation to a radiating black body (such as stars; hotter stars [more K] are blue/white and cooler stars [less K] are red/orange/yellow).

In other words, if I take a flashlight and shine it through a blue lens, I am changing the wavelength of the light, and hence I see blue on the other side. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The reason I believe 'party lights', and other household lights, are not good for plant growth is because they lack intensity (much of the energy generated is thermal, hence these bulbs get hot).
They would probably work, if you could get close enough to the plants without burning them.

### #31 Turtle

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:39 PM

In other words, if I take a flashlight and shine it through a blue lens, I am changing the wavelength of the light, and hence I see blue on the other side. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct...partly. In the flashlight scenario, the 'full' spectrum of the flashlight itself is dependent on the filament material and other particulars of the bulb; making the addition of the blue lens is actually a subtractive process in terms of color, i.e. the filter blocks all colors but blue. Light intensity drops and heat goes up in the bargain.
The various 'grow' lights we are discussing are using an additive process to get more colors, not subtractive filtering. They either add different gases to the bulb (e.g. sodium),or coating the interior of the bulb/tube with different mixtures of fluorescent minerals.
Oiu/no, mon ami?

### #32 Michaelangelica

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 02:56 AM

Well I bought it "Nelson party ultra Violet" made in china (of course)
(Don't tell my wife)
I have just spent the last 20 minutes trying to plug it in.
Karma suta positions are a breeze by comparison.
My new house is full of them (and every type of light known to man.)
I get very nervous on tall ladders. (The kitchen has a "cute" but useless in-built "window box" that gets no sunlight)
The packet on the Party Ultra Violet Light says "warning Party light generates UVA"
I thought that might be a good thing for plants in the window box. or do they need sunscreen?
Now the bloody light is half-in half out and I'm frustrated and it's stuck and won't work.
My wife is trying to ignore me.

It might be time for me to invite my cousin with her electrician husband over for dinner?

I did see some led lights equivalent to 250V lights at the Gigantic Hardware Store.
But they were very long floresecency things and I suspected they would look ugly, poke out of the recessed fitting, and I am not that sure about their safety in recessed light fittings.
Bugger.

### #33 Ganoderma

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:02 AM

I *think* what cedar is talking about is just using a cover or different colour glass in the party lights. like those red, green, blue etc incandescent ones that are just a coating on a clear glass bulb...so its like turtle says, just taking away from the spectrum.

When i was breeding reptiles we often just went by the more k the better. simply because the UV A-B-C are past the blue end (6000k+ for the blue), and We want UVB in particular because this allows us animals to absorb vitamin D3.

Lumens is an efficiency thing...and incandescents suck..like mention before 1300-1700 for 100watt bulb...thats 13-17/w. you can readily buy philips compact flouros that are 50-60/watt...and LED are commonly sold at 60-80/watt. Taiwan National University is (or has?) installing LED street lamps (a damn good idea i think!!!!! LED are very directional, also cuts back on light pollution....look at Taiwan on a satellite image at night ). They only said that the ones being installed were "over" 100/watt....not bad considering many street lamps here are 4' flouros (weird i know) or hps.

Black lights (real black lights) are high in UVA and i am fairly sure that is why they are so bad for the eyes, and probably the skin as is all UV in excessive amounts. here are some scans of copies i made a few years ago when researching lights for reptiles.

Most of these are from Philips or Sylvania to do with spectrum and UV radiation.

Basic colour chart showing common bulbs. Philips.

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### #34 Cedars

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 08:31 PM

I understand all this Cedars, but I still can't understand what you mean by:

The colored glass is changing the wavelength/frequency of the light. The K scale is measuring the same thing essentially (wavelength), except it assigns the color (read wavelength) value in relation to a radiating black body (such as stars; hotter stars [more K] are blue/white and cooler stars [less K] are red/orange/yellow).

In other words, if I take a flashlight and shine it through a blue lens, I am changing the wavelength of the light, and hence I see blue on the other side. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The reason I believe 'party lights', and other household lights, are not good for plant growth is because they lack intensity (much of the energy generated is thermal, hence these bulbs get hot).
They would probably work, if you could get close enough to the plants without burning them.

What Turtle and Gandomera said sums it up quite well. I believe its different types of phosphorous to achieve higher reds and blues (as well as green) spectrum types.

I am no expert which is why I suggested looking up what the aquatic plant people are doing/using. Artificial lighting leaves something to be desired and with the added burden of trying to get enough light thru the water (along with ferts/CO2) these guys methods may offer added insight on using artificial methods to produce a quality plant.

All fluorescents are not created equal having seen impact on plant growth in the office I worked at. George (the maintenance guy) came to replace burnt out bulbs and within a very short time leaves fell off plants. While the light us office ladies needed to work was adequate, it was not good for our medium and higher light plants. George was a good guy though, he ordered new bulbs and switched out the ones he replaced with the higher K bulbs, and used the other ones in non-plant areas. We did not achieve the same level of growth with the high light plants, but the leaves no longer fell off. Different companies bulb. According to George, the cost was significantly higher for the original type of bulb. I attribute that to the former building owner, a health insurance corp, probably going with full spectrum/daylight type lighting (a guess on my part).