Does God exist?

[InfiniteNow]

In ones mind many things and thoughts exist, including god. The Wired magazine had an article, in early 2000, where they monitored the brain to discover the area most responsible for the God thought.

 

And this was disproven during later studies. It's unfortunate that heavily hyped news stories take so long to be extinguished in the minds of the populace and the memes of the internet.

 

 

No 'God Spot' in the Human Brain | LiveScience

The human brain does not contain a single "God spot" responsible for mystical and religious experiences, a new study finds.

 

Instead, the sense of union with God or something greater than the self often described by those who have undergone such experiences involves the recruitment and activation of a variety brain regions normally implicated in different functions such as self-consciousness, emotion and body representation.

 

<...>

 

The study found that mystical experiences activate more than a dozen different areas of the brain at once. One of the regions, called the caudate nucleus, has been implicated in positive emotions such as happiness, romantic love and maternal love.

 

 

 

Brain scan of nuns finds no single 'God spot' in the brain, Université de Montréal study finds

This study demonstrated that a dozen different regions of the brain are activated during a mystical experience. This type of research became very popular in the United States in the late 1990s. Some researchers went as far as suggesting the possibility of a specific brain region designed for communication with God. This latest research discredits such theories.

[iamnoman]

Proving wether a god , gods, or 3 legged creatures that suck your brains out while you are sleeping, seems to be problematic. If you look at simple things like proving wether sasquatch exists, or UFOs/USOs. These things are all a quest for the unknown. Such is the same with science. Words are said by people. Others wish for proof before they believe. We all can go to some podunk museum and see a cast of bigfoot's footprint. It is up to us wether we believe that there is a possibility of a creature that all of us wise humans have not seen before. But , wait then again science has proven that there are spectrums of light and various different energys that our human faculties cannot comprehend on their own. I think that the scientific and religious communities should join forces and abandon the ignorant Hatfield/McCoy-esque feud that has been going on for centuries and actually work towards learning something. I myself am content with not knowing. For one.... If there is an omnipotent, all-encompassing god, I will not be able to comprehend it. My sadly under developed senses can not see infra-red light, much less comprehend the sounds a common bat makes. I have seen so much ridiculous banter between atheists and theists, that it makes me not only want to abandon hypography forums, I would like to quit the human race as well. Up until around 500 years ago, most of the scientific community believed the world was flat. There is such a lack in pioneering spirit and intellect in this world anymore, maybe we should just go back to believing that. There are new species found in areas of the world that we thought we knew everything about. Explain that to yourselves. Were people sitting around trying to disprove the existence of such species before they found it? I hate religion, and I am beginning to find a similar distaste for the scientific community. HOW HAVE WE EVER ADVANCED SCIENTIFICALLY FROM TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF ANYTHING!!!???? As far as I can tell the field is open, until one of us steps up and proves that they, in fact, are the omnipotent, ever-present, all-knowing God of everyone and everything. People are still running around in the North American wilderness looking for "Big Foot". They are still combing lakes in the U.S., Scotland, and England, looking for sea serpents. The fact that they haven't found them, does not mean they don't exist(have you ever played hide and seek?) I am sorry if I am coming off as some kind of freak, but there are many things we, as a collective do not know. There are a great many things to be discovered, and I think we are selling ourselves short.

[jedaisoul]

There are two problems with the question "does God exist?":

• Define what you mean by "God".
  
• Define what you mean by "existence".

I think you will find that there are many definitions of "God" and "existence", therefore it is impossible to give a single answer to the question.

 

Now, if you asked "does the God of Abraham exist as a material entity?", then you might get closer to an answer...

[jedaisoul]

In case my previous post was too brief and did not explain the problem I see in this question, I'd like to expand on the second point "what is existence?".

 

Does the number 5 exist? Well I imagine that you understood what I meant by "the number 5", so in that sense it exists as an abstract concept that we share.

 

Does the unicorn exist? It is a mythical creature, which may be based on early descriptions of the rhinoceros. But as soon as I mention "unicorn" a picture of a white horse with a single horn pops into your head (well, it does in mine).

 

So when you used the word "God", it had a meaning to you, and when I read it, it had a meaning to me. They are not necessarily the same meaning, but we both asssociate the word "God" with a meaning (or meanings). So to that extent the entity "God" exists. Furthermore, it does so even if neither of us believe in God.

 

That's a bit scary!

[InfiniteNow]

Does the unicorn exist? It is a mythical creature, which may be based on early descriptions of the rhinoceros. But as soon as I mention "unicorn" a picture of a white horse with a single horn pops into your head (well, it does in mine).

Nope. My unicorns are purple. :shrug:

[IATESOTK]

I see the debate for God as one we will never know the answer to. If we knew the answer, then what would we be living for?

 

I think without a doubt it is this fundamental search that actually keeps our brains alive. I'm not well versed in psychology, so keep in mind that I'm merely speaking from the heart. I do know what I know-- and I'm what some would consider an "expert" in music. That is the area I've spent the most time studying. I use the term expert loosely, because anyone can be an expert given the time and circumstance. Think back to when you were a virgin, and how some of the older friends seemed like sex experts to you in your little world. The cool older cousin slips you a Playboy and it's like "mana from the heavens". Now imagine that same scenario multiplied out on a much larger scale. As we learn more, it becomes harder for us to recognize, but in a sense we are all children. What may be basic knowledge to a mechanical engineer, an IT specialist had no knowledge of.

 

Some people don't realize they are searching for "God"--but if you really trace it back, we are all really going after the same thing. We are all chasing some god, or some career, or some dream that will give us hope for the future. When we start to lose hope, many of us become depressed. Some become angry and cynical--but those feelings are sometimes felt together as one big feeling of negativity.

 

You ever been really depressed, but then something happens that is completely unorthodox and you instantly snap out of your depression? Like for instance, you get a promotion at work, or a long lost friend calls you out of the blue? Science can tell us that the sudden event caused a shift in brain chemicals, and that explains the relief. But what caused the chemical reaction? Was it the physical manifestation of the event? If it was a phone call from an old friend, then was it putting a phone to your ear that relieved the depression temporarily? Or was it the idea in your brain that said, "Oh hey! Something to live for! Another little mystery to solve."

 

I don't claim to have an answer to anything--- but I can think of a question for every answer that is asked--and that makes me happy to be alive.

[REASON]

...I don't claim to have an answer to anything--- but I can think of a question for every answer that is asked--and that makes me happy to be alive.

 

Nice first post in a real thread, IATESOTK. :)

 

I think I might look forward to more of your work. :)

[IATESOTK]

Nice first post in a real thread, IATESOTK. :)

 

I think I might look forward to more of your work. :)

 

Thanks REASON!

 

It's amazing to have an outlet for all these questions and ideas I have running around in here. :)

[OutsideTheBox]

There's no way that God's existence can be proven or disproven in this lifetime. I say that because of the almost wholly material nature of our existence in this material realm. Virtually anything you experienced, whether a magic act by David Copperfield - don't accompany him to his island though :) - or an actual miracle from the heavens would still leave you guessing that what you experienced was of a material nature. The reality of our binding to time, space, and the material realm in this life by defintion make it extremely difficult to experience that which transcends all three of those constructs. Perhaps those with a more spiritual nature, thus capable of transcending the otherwise wholly material existence on Earth, are indeed capable of discerning the existence of something real beyond just the people and environment around us. In that case it probably isn't too hard to extrapolate further to God. I think that's a lot of why religion (at the risk of having the word misconstrued to be associated with the many backward religions espoused these days) is such a personal experience. If you truly believe as an individual then who is to say that you are wrong and the non-believers are right? Conversely, to push the feelings/beliefs of a believer on a non-believer clearly is never going to work...

 

For what it's worth, I am personally quite confident that creationism (not to say that particular form espoused by certain religious organizations) and evolution are in no way mutually exclusive.

[freeztar]

For what it's worth, I am personally quite confident that creationism (not to say that particular form espoused by certain religious organizations) and evolution are in no way mutually exclusive.

 

How so?

 

You can wade in the water, and never get wet, if you keep on doin' that rag :)

[OutsideTheBox]

How so?

 

You can wade in the water, and never get wet, if you keep on doin' that rag :)

 

I'm not afraid to get wet... :(

 

If life were intelligently/purposely brought to this planet in its earliest stage(s) and then allowed to evolve... There you have it, both creationism (though not in the 'poof, you are people' manner) and evolution intertwined. Which is precisely what I believe occurred, to be truthful...

[REASON]

I'm not afraid to get wet... :(

 

If life were intelligently/purposely brought to this planet in its earliest stage(s) and then allowed to evolve... There you have it, both creationism (though not in the 'poof, you are people' manner) and evolution intertwined. Which is precisely what I believe occurred, to be truthful...

 

Interesting. So do you have any ideas of who the intelligent and purposeful beings were that brought the seeds of life to this planet? Who may have created them? How did all this agriculture, if you will, begin? Was it really their intention to wait four billion years for us, as intelligent and purposeful beings, to recognize their important contribution? Why not simply colonize?

 

Sorry. I always end up with all these questions. :)

[IATESOTK]

If life were intelligently/purposely brought to this planet in its earliest stage(s) and then allowed to evolve... There you have it, both creationism (though not in the 'poof, you are people' manner) and evolution intertwined. Which is precisely what I believe occurred, to be truthful...

 

I agree, actually. Evolution and creationism could easily work hand to hand if there is indeed an "ultimate creator."

 

It is my personal guess, if you will, that in order for God to be all knowing, He would have to have the ability to bend time--or maybe eliminate time completely. This would allow earth to evolve over millions of years to our perception, but perhaps to God it is only days or minutes or whatever.

 

It would be sort of like a computer game, let's say The Sims or Civilization (if you haven't played Civ. . I highly recommend it.) where you can "fast forward" the progression of time, so that the characters on screen make their moves extremely fast but it only takes you a couple seconds.

[OutsideTheBox]

Interesting. So do you have any ideas of who the intelligent and purposeful beings were that brought the seeds of life to this planet? Who may have created them? How did all this agriculture, if you will, begin? Was it really their intention to wait four billion years for us, as intelligent and purposeful beings, to recognize their important contribution? Why not simply colonize?

 

Sorry. I always end up with all these questions. :rolleyes:

 

 

No need to be sorry (though I'm quite sure you were being rhetorical). :cup: I suspect we all love the discussion/debate. I know I do.

 

By the way, nothing I write is purposefully meant to be presumptuous or authoritative. Sometimes I think people can inadvertently alienate each other, particularly on sensitive topics like religion or politics (and yes, even science), due to misperceptions of delivery. I think it's important to note since I'm not a proponent of dogma in any form and sincerely enjoy hearing others' views.

 

I believe that intelligent beings carried life to this planet much as an earthly farmer carries seeds to a newly prepared field. Obviously, the time scales are wildly differential, but it's my view that an intelligent mechanism is in place in the universe whereby newly modified life forms (I suspect as defined/contained in DNA) are 'implanted', if you will, on previously prepped planets not dissimilarly to the way we conduct agriculture on Earth.

 

Sometimes a 'crop' goes bad, too, just like it does here. Also, sometimes the 'agriculture' goes awry (if that word is meaningful) when a previously seeded world's evolved life gets technologically advanced enough to start doing their own seeding, perhaps using their own form as a baseline. Much like a rogue farmer, or maybe more analogous to the way that humans are now working with cloning technology and/or genetic engineering.

 

So, in a nutshell I'm of the view that colonization is also plausible and even a hybrid of seeding/colonization. Essentially, I believe the crude parallels of what we do on earth in terms of agriculture and genetics make sense.

 

Why wait huge amounts of time to see the fruit of seeding? I think it's a combination of the requirement for experience in the universe (I don't think we are the only experiential life by any means) and the plan of 'regulation', if you will. Certain orders of creatures are tasked with modifying and carrying life to the new spheres, while other certain existing previously evolved life forms are endowed with the dynamic freewill to do so as well (perhaps seeding and/or colonization) even though maybe they shouldn't be doing so. In any event, the seeding process shouldn't (and doesn't in my view) necessarily exclude the a later quasi-colonization scenario by way of genetic manipulation and/or integration...

 

I'll cut to the chase (though I do enjoy the debate in any context - whether focusing or not on the foundational beliefs of myself or others) and tell you that I believe in the Urantia Book. I'm glad to debate/discuss it here or elsewhere if it furthers the topic, but I mention it because it's very clear and concise on these matters. Thus referencing it as the foundation of my views should help clarify them as well.

[InfiniteNow]

I believe that intelligent beings carried life to this planet much as an earthly farmer carries seeds to a newly prepared field.

Try to remember the context of this discussion. The thread title is "Does God exist?" Hence, the logical next question to your quote above is, "And where did those intelligent beings come from?" You then get into to this reductio ad infinitum and land on God... but even then, the question remains... where did god come from.

 

The addition of god (or intelligent beings for that matter) don't offer any new information to the question at hand, they simply place arbitrary and unproven conjecture between the state of current knowledge and the ultimately sought goal.

 

 

And... then where did THEY come from... It's like playing the "why?" game with a 3 year old...

[OutsideTheBox]

I agree, actually. Evolution and creationism could easily work hand to hand if there is indeed an "ultimate creator."

 

It is my personal guess, if you will, that in order for God to be all knowing, He would have to have the ability to bend time--or maybe eliminate time completely. This would allow earth to evolve over millions of years to our perception, but perhaps to God it is only days or minutes or whatever.

 

It would be sort of like a computer game, let's say The Sims or Civilization (if you haven't played Civ. . I highly recommend it.) where you can "fast forward" the progression of time, so that the characters on screen make their moves extremely fast but it only takes you a couple seconds.

 

 

I don't disagree at all. Although, I'm not sure that 'fast forward' is common. I do believe that time is not constant in the realms of time and space, and that it may be (is) discerned differently at different points in the universe depending upon location (and perhaps other factors). I think earthly science has shown this is true in terms of our perception of time in relation to space travel.

[OutsideTheBox]

Try to remember the context of this discussion. The thread title is "Does God exist?" Hence, the logical next question to your quote above is, "And where did those intelligent beings come from?" You then get into to this reductio ad infinitum and land on God... but even then, the question remains... where did god come from.

 

The addition of god (or intelligent beings for that matter) don't offer any new information to the question at hand, they simply place arbitrary and unproven conjecture between the state of current knowledge and the ultimately sought goal.

 

 

And... then where did THEY come from... It's like playing the "why?" game with a 3 year old...

 

 

I thought I was pretty clear in my last response, which was a continuation of discussion relating to someone else previously expanding the discussion a bit.

 

Ironically, I agree with the 3 year old guessing game comment more than you might have imagined. If your mind is open enough to compare/contrast yourself with that 3 year old in the game then it's not a big stretch to contemplate about how your knowledge and understanding is likely to increase/expand with the passage of time and exposure to new situations and knowledge you are at present unfamiliar with.

 

Why would you or I or anyone be presumptuous enough so as to preclude the possibility of being analagous to the 3 year in one sense (expected massive intellectual/spiritual growth) while closely modeling the same 3 year in the 'why' game? Doing so would seem a hair misguided (or disingenuous), don't you think?