Math: Did we discover or create it?

Hi, everyone. I'm new here. I saw this forum for the first time on a thread about Evolution and Intelligent Design, you know, the classic debate.

Anyway, here's something I can't understand or figure out: math.

We all know how important math is on the world, not arguing that. However, there are people that think that we discovered the laws of math, while others say that we created them (kinda like a language). There is also debate about if it's really a science or not? So, what do you think?

Is math something we created and improved, or something that was there just to be discovered?

I think that math is not a science. I also think that it is inherent in nature, and exists whether or not there is somebody to count, as such, it would be 'discovered' rather than 'invented'.

I would agree with pgrmdave. Mathematics are discovered. It is, however, like all tools, not perfect and thus improved upon as we learn more and more and also by applying it to new areas. Relativity and quantum mechanics are two areas which have contributed a lot to the development of modern techniques in math.

BTW if your intention is to discuss Intelligent Design, please do so in our Theology forum.

yeah i would agree that it is discovered but there are some parts about math that have only come about directly because of us humans. for example we use base 10 as our default system - I assume because we have 10 fingers and 10 toes...

yes math is just a tool, like the rock used as a hammer, we didn't create it, but we did create the idea of using the rock as a hammer.

Nice replies, people. Now, if it's something that was there to be discovered or figured out, then I guess it could be considered as science, not? I mean, science does not create the laws of nature, it just discovers them.

Well, something of the sort.

And no, I'm not here to discuss Intelligent Design vs. Evolution vs. That other theory, those debates are mostly endless and with no specific winner... although, I may debate one or two religious topics...

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Is a rock science because we didn't create it?

Science, at least good science, follows the scientific meathod, while mathematics does not.

Let me explain better: Science explains the laws of nature. It discovers them, and explain them.

A rock, well, it doesn't try to explain anything.

True, that's where the thing is. Math does not need experimentation to prove it. Math proves itself, on paper of course...